Jacksons vs AEG - Day 30 – June 14 2013 – Summary
Katherine Jackson was in court.
Randy Phillips Testimony
Jackson redirect
Panish started out by asking Phillips about his meeting with Jackson’s ex-manager, Tohme Tohme, at the Polo Lounge in Beverly Hills. Phillips denied calling Katherine Jackson anything derogatory during the meeting. He also denied he called Jackson a “freak.” (AP)
Phillips denied again using derogatory terms to refer to Mrs. Jackson while meeting with Dr. Tohme at Polo Lounge on May 4th of this year. (ABC7) Phillips also denied that he discussed the Jackson vs AEG Live case with Tohme, but says other people may have. Lawyers were at the meeting. (AP)
Panish then moved into questioning about Phillips’ conversation with Brenda Richie. He testified about this earlier this week. Phillips said Brenda Richie told him she had been talking to Jackson (through a medium) and the singer told her not to blame Conrad Murray. Panish showed jury Phillips’ deposition testimony, in which he didn’t mention Brenda Richie’s statements. The questioning about Richie statements is one of the areas Panish used this morning to try to show Phillips’ testimony has evolved. (AP)
The back-and-forth between Phillips and Panish has been very pointed, tense this morning. Judge has had to intervene a couple times. For instance, at one point Panish asked Phillips, “Are you bored with this?” Phillips: “No, you’re very interesting.” (AP)
Panish mentioned that Phillips had testified a lot about conversations with Jackson, Frank Dileo, and attorney Peter Lopez. Panish asked what those three had in common. Phillips said it was a rhetorical question. “They all passed away.” (AP) Panish asked Phillips what MJ, Peter Lopez and Frank DiLeo have in common. "They've all passed away," Phillips responded.(ABC7) The lawyer said none had given testimony in the case before dying. AEG lawyer objected as to Dileo, who gave sworn statement in another case (AP)
Panish spent a lot of the morning going over areas where he says Phillips changed his testimony. The lawyer played some of Phillips’ interview with Sky News a few days after Jackson’s death. Panish noted that Phillips didn’t mention in the interview that Jackson was responsible for Conrad Murray’s salary. (AP)
Panish: Are you aware of articles quoting you saying you hired Dr. Murray?
Phillips: I don't recall (ABC7)
Panish pressed asking if he had testified earlier in the week saying he was not aware of articles quoting him. It's been a long time the articles have been written, Phillips testified, saying he doesn't remember whether he gave any other interviews. Phillips: If articles were written from interview w/ Sky News it's possible, I just don't remember giving interview about AEG hiring Dr. Murray. Earlier, Phillips testified Michael Roth, AEG's PR person, set up interviews, so most likely he had talk with Roth about hiring Dr. Murray. "I don't remember, you have to show me the articles," Phillips explained when Panish asked if he gave other interviews says AEG hired Dr. Murray. (ABC7)
As to Dr. Murray hiring, Phillips said all he knew in beginning of June when they met at the Forum, there was no agreement with Dr. Murray. Phillips said 'he' didn't want to hire an American doctor due to the costs. "There were two issues: one was cost, the other was the ability to practice in the UK," Phillips explained. (ABC7)
Questioning then moved into Phillips’ testimony about his phone conversation with Conrad Murray on June 20, 2009. Panish was trying to show Phillips’ testimony changed about the call, that different answers were given at deposition, trial. At his deposition, Phillips initially said the call only lasted 2 to 3 minutes. He changed it later in depo, after meeting with his lawyer. The call was actually much longer, around 25 minutes, Phillips has since said.(AP)
Phillips testified he doesn't know whether his home number is unlisted or not. He said he rarely uses it due to cell phones. (ABC7)
Panish pressed Phillips about why his testimony changed so much. Questioned why he didn’t just say that he didn’t recall or remember. Panish said Phillips had said he didn’t recall ore remember details dozens of time during his deposition. Phillips said he clarified his answers as necessary. “We’re parsing words,” Phillips said. “It’s all we’ve been doing.” (AP)
Phillips was then asked about the “trouble at the Front” email and the assertion by production manager that MJ could do multiple 360 spins early in rehearsals, but “would fall on his ass” if he tried it on June 19, 2009. Phillips had been shown a long clip of a rehearsal of “Billie Jean” on Thursday. Jackson did several spins, but one spin at a time. The “Billie Jean” rehearsal footage in "This Is It" film was from June 5, 2009, Panish said. Panish showed a couple clips from earlier in Jackson’s career of him doing multiple, extremely fast 360 spins. The lawyer asked Phillips if there was any footage of Jackson doing multiple 360 spins during “This Is It” rehearsals. His answer was no. Phillips tried to make the point that all the “This Is It” footage was rehearsals, while one of the clips was a full-blown MJ performance. (AP)
Panish then asked Phillips if he saw Jackson perform consecutive spins in 2009. Considering the movie is a rehearsal and that’s a full-on performance at Madison Square Garden…no,” he said. (KCAL) Phillips said he believed Jackson was holding back because it was a rehearsal, not a "full-on" performance. (NYDailyNews)
The exec explained again he felt very confused, Dr. Murray was saying MJ was fine, but emails from Ortega and Hougdahl said it differently. Dr. Murray reassured Phillips on June 20th that MJ was fine, the doctor wasn't sure what was going on the day before, perhaps the flu. (ABC7)
Panish asked Phillips about his testimony that Jackson looked good on June 20, 2009, just hours after he’d been sent home from rehearsal. The lawyer showed Phillips a picture of Jackson taken on June 19th from a costume fitting. Jackson was in a T-shirt, looked thin. Phillips said of Jackson on June 20th: “He wasn’t dressed in a T-shirt, he looked great.” Phillips said he had no idea what changed from previous day about Jackson's appearance. (He didn't see him on June 19th) (AP)
Panish attempted again to "impeach" the witness, which is a legal technique to put in question his credibility. "He looked really good," Phillips said about MJ rehearsals on June 23 and 24. "But you said it was fantastic," Panish inquired. Phillips said he was as confused as anyone, since the MJ he expected to see after the chain of emails was very differently from what he saw. "The MJ sitting in that living room looked great," Philips recalled. Panish showed pic of MJ on Jun 19th wearing t-shirt looking very skinny. The attorney asked if that MJ looked really good in Phillips's opinion. Phillips explained that his description of MJ looking really good was from what he saw on June 23. Phillips recalled that MJ didn't look like the picture from the 19th, the day he went home sick. On the 23rd, Phillips said MJ was not wearing t-shirt, had hair and makeup done, looked great. (ABC7)
On June 19, after a particularly troubling day of rehearsal, tour director Kenny Ortega sent Phillips an email in which he said Jackson was "trembling, rambling, obsessing" and needed a mental health evaluation. A photo taken during a costume fitting that day shows a gaunt Jackson in a white T-shirt. A meeting with Jackson, Ortega, Phillips and Murray was held at the singer's Carolwood Drive house the next day. Phillips testified Jackson "looked really good." Panish asked him how Jackson could improve so quickly. "I was as confused as anybody because the Michael JacksonI saw, the Michael Jackson sitting in that living room ... looked great." What changed in 12 hours? Panish asked. "I have no idea," Phillips replied. (LAtimes)
Panish then wanted to ask Phillips about a voicemail that Jackson’s manager Frank Dileo left for Conrad Murray on morning of June 20th. The message was played during Murray’s criminal trial. In it, Dileo is heard saying that tests need to be taken on Jackson. Panish wanting to play the message for this jury prompted a recess during which the attorneys argued. Jury left the courtroom. Plaintiff’s attorneys said it should be played because Phillips was asked whether Dileo called Murray. AEG attorneys argued it was improper. Katherine Jackson’s team also said it should be played because Phillips could verify it was Dileo’s voice on the call. AEG attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina however said it would lead jurors to derive an “improper inference.” The judge wouldn’t allow the Frank Dileo message to be played for the jury. Panish was frustrated by the judge’s ruling. He threw his left arm against his leg and it sounded like he cursed under his breath. (AP)
After the break, Panish told Phillips, “I’m going to try to finish if you try to answer” the questions. (AP)
Panish: I want to finish, you answer the questions, ok?
Phillips: We got a deal (ABC7)
It wasn’t long before Phillips made some allusion to what his attorneys told him, prompting a sidebar. When the lawyers returned, Judge Yvette Palazuelos told Phillips to testify about “substance” of conversations with his lawyers. Palazuelos said if he had a doubt, Phillips should ask her. “I can talk to you,” he responded. (AP)
Phillips was asked whether he mediated a dispute between Jackson’s managers Tohme Tohme and Frank Dileo. Phillips said no. The executive said he urged them to meet for breakfast or some other meal, but it wasn’t his role to make sure they got along. (AP)
Phillips was then asked about whether there was an ethical wall involved in AEG Live’s dealings with Jackson. Phillips had called this
concept a Chinese wall, but the judge told everyone to call it an ethical wall instead. The executive said he understood it to be an arrangement so there wasn’t an unfair advantage for one side in certain arrangements. Panish: “If somebody’s on both sides of a deal it can potentially be a conflict of interest.” Phillips said it depends. “It can be, it isn’t always” a conflict of interest, Phillips said. (AP)
Panish asked the "Chinese Wall" comment Phillips made on the stand if it meant he was mediating conflicts. Phillips said it was ethical wall. "I didn't do Travis', but I was involved in material terms of Kenny's deal," Phillips said. (ABC7)
The questions related to Tohme’s $100k per month agreement with AEG Live, which Jackson also signed. Phillips said he felt there was an ethical wall in place between AEG Live and Tohme when that deal was made. Important to note, the payment required Tohme to assist in getting cancellation insurance for “This Is It” by a certain time. The deadline passed, so AEG Live never paid Tohme Tohme the $100k a month. (AP)
Panish: Was there an ethical wall between AEG Live and Dr. Tohme?
Phillips: I felt that it was (ABC7)
Panish questioned whether the ethical wall in the Tohme deal was memorialized in writing. Phillips said that’s not the way it works.
“It’s about behavior. It’s not a real wall,” Phillips told Panish about the concept of an ethical wall. There was lots of back and forth on the ethical wall issue, Phillips maintained it was a code of behavior, not something that’s written down (AP)
Panish asked if Phillips had the "ethical wall" in writing. "I don't know those things are in writing, it's figure of speech," Phillips said. The exec said the ethical wall is not set up. "It's about behavior, it's not a real wall, it's about behavior," Phillips explained. (ABC7)
Panish: You don't know how to set up one?
Phillips: I've never seen one (ethical wall) set up formally (ABC7)
"To me it's how you behave, you behave ethically with each other" Phillips described saying the ethical wall existed between AEG Live and MJ (ABC7)
Panish: How do AEG employees know about ethical wall?
Phillips: Frankly, I believe interests merge after deal is struck between 2 parties. (ABC7)
Phillips explained that ethical wall is not something that's build, tangible, or in a document, but it's about the behavior of the parties. (ABC7)
Panish: Did you tell Mr. Gongaware there was an ethical wall?
Phillips: It's not something you discuss, it's how you behave (ABC7)
Panish asked about potential conflict of interest w/ AEG and Dr Tohme. "MJ directed us to do that agreement and he signed it," Phillips said. Panish asked if there was doc saying there's a potential conflict of interest with AEG Live hiring Dr. Tohme to be MJ's personal manager. "Mr. Panish, it's the artist who directed us, I didn't know who Dr. Tohme was," Phillips responded. (ABC7)
Panish: Did you advise in writing potential conflict of interest?
Phillips: No
Panish: Did the artist sign a release of potential conflict of interest?
Phillips: The artist may have created the conflict, so no (ABC7)
Phillips also repeated that Jackson requested the Tohme agreement. “The artist may have created the conflict, too,” he said.(AP)
Panish asked Phillips about many the artists he’s mentioned working with, including George Strait, Bon Jovi,Britney Spears. Panish: “How many of those artists had personal managers that had a contract directly with AEG Live.” Phillips: “Probably none of them.” Panish then asked how many of the artists Phillips mentioned had doctors hired by AEG Live for them. “None,” the executive replied. (AP)
Panish then asked Phillips about his assertion that Jackson changed managers like some people change socks. The lawyer asked how many times Phillips changed his socks during the day. 2 to 3 times, he replied, if he went for a workout. (AP) About 'changing the socks' comment, Panish asked Phillips how many times a day he changes his socks. He said 2-3. Panish asked Phillips how many managers MJ had from 2007 until his death. "Dr. Tohme initiated the deal," Phillips said, then Frank DiLeo, a period of time Arpac Hussain, then, subject to dispute, Leonard Rowe. Panish asked if DiLeo and Tohme were the main managers. Phillips agreed but said that wasn't what Panish asked him. Phillips added Raymone Bain and Peter Lopez as MJ's managers. "Lopez did a Pepsi deal for MJ as his manager," Phillips explained. (ABC7) He then listed four people who were designated as Jackson managers during the “This Is It” period. (AP)
"I don't know who our attorneys sent the contract to, so I can't say," Phillips said about emailing Dr. Murray's contract. (ABC7) Panish asked how many of the managers Phillips sent Conrad Murray’s contract to. More back-and-forth on that issue, without a clear answer. (AP)
As to creating AEG Live: "I absolutely did, I invented the company based on business plan I created and I also named it," Phillips testified. (ABC7)
Panish: You said whomever MJ had as his own manager was his own business, correct?
Phillips: Correct (ABC7)
Phillips explained when he received email from Kathy Jorrie questioning Dr. Tohme he forwarded it to Peter Lopez, MJ's attorney at the time. (ABC7)
There was some more discussion of Murray and Phillips’ assertion that he thought he was successful because he asked for $5 million. Panish asked if it seemed odd that Murray agreed to take the job for less -- a $150k a month fee. “That wasn’t unreasonable because that’s what doctors make,” Phillips responded. He said he had a general idea of what doctors earn. (AP)
Panish inquired about the fact that Phillips thought Dr. Murray asking for $5 million as payment automatically made him a good doctor.
Panish: If he wanted $10 million, he would be more successful?
Phillips: Absolutely true
Panish: For $20 million the most successful doctor around?
Phillips: Correct
"I wasn't alarmed by the number because it was Michael's doctor and Michael was paying for it," Phillips explained. (ABC7)
Phillips said John Branca had been hired by MJ on June 18th, two days prior to the 20th meeting. Panish: Did you ever tell Branca you brought the doctor to the fold? Phillips: I think there was some logical communication, otherwise they would've been hanging. Regarding the email John Branca asked if MJ's problem was related to substance abuse, Phillips said he didn't know one way or the other. (ABC7)
AEG recross
Panish concluded his questioning. Putnam was back at it. Phillips joked: Your honor, is this really over after this? Courtroom laughed. (ABC7)
Phillips reiterated that AEG never paid Dr. Tohme because some conditions of his contract were not fulfilled. (ABC7)
Putnam: Did Dr. Tohme have anything to do with Dr. Murray?
Phillips: None whatsoever that I know of (ABC7)
Putnam: Are you aware of any articles were you are quoting saying we hire him (Dr. Murray)?
Phillips: No (ABC7)
Regarding the video shown yesterday of Mr. Jackson's spinning, Phillips testified it was production rehearsal, not even full dance rehearsal. Phillips said MJ did 360s spins, and he was 50 years old. The other video shown to the jury yesterday was MJ performing in the early 80s. (ABC7) Defense lawyer Marvin Putnam took over and asked a few questions. Some of the main ones related to Jackson’s 360 spins. Putnam asked Phillips when the two vids Panish showed him were shot. Phillips said one was ‘01 and other one looked like it was from the 80s. Putnam asked Phillips how old Jackson was when he died. The singer was 50, and was only doing a rehearsal in ‘09, Phillips said. (AP)
Jackson redirect
Then it was Panish's turn again.
Phillips: You are back?
Panish: Just a couple of questions
Phillips: I'm gonna miss you
Everyone laughed (ABC7)
Phillips said MJ didn't do multiple 360s spins that he remembers, but he didn't know if the choreography called for it. Phillips said he's not a choreographer. "I'm flat footed, there's a reason I'm in this side of the business." Phillips said if he tried a 360 spin he'd be on the jury's lap. "I know what a 360 is, you don't need to be a choreographer to know that," Phillips explained. (ABC7)
Panish got another few questions and asked again about the 360 spins. He questioned Phillips’ knowledge of choreography. “I’m flat footed,” Phillips replied. “There’s a reason I’m on this side of the business.” Continuing the self-deprecation, he added he couldn’t do a 360 spin. “If I tried, I’d be in the jury’s lap.” (AP)
Panish: Who's more competent to judge choreography you or Hougdahl?
Phillips: Could be me since he hadn't worked in pop production before (ABC7)
Phillips was finally excused, subject to recall.