Jacksons vs AEG - Day 37 – June 25 2013 – Summary
Katherine Jackson was in court
Source : all of the below is from ABC7.
Dr. Gordon Matheson
Jackson direct
Bloss asked about email from Phillips to Ortega on June 20. Phillips was recognizing the decline of Jackson's health, Dr. Matheson opined. "It's also evident that there are conflict of interest issues," Dr. Matheson expressed. About Phillips saying 'The doctor is successful, completely unbiased.' Dr. Matheson said that tells exec was aware of conflict of interest. Matheson opined the email demonstrates “pushback” - Not good for a producer or team owner to be involved directly with the player or artist. As to email "he was shaking, couldn’t cut food, no shape to go on stage” Dr Matheson reacted: "It's indication health concern is serious".
Dr. Matheson - “First and foremost we want an understanding of what the problem is. That is what leads us to the proper treatment.” Dr. Matheson said Phillips was trying to diagnose the problem, yet Jackson was being put back in rehearsal; that is a concern. As to Phillips saying "Take the doctor with you", Dr. Matheson said it means AEG wanted to have some input, influence in the meeting. "It would have been inappropriate, shows AEG still wanted to manage the doctors decision," Dr. Matheson testified.
As to 'Trouble at the Front' email where Phillips says Dr. Murray 'is not a psychiatrist so I am not sure how effective he can be..." Dr. Matheson: It says Phillips is not sure, first says it's covered, then he questions doctors effectiveness. Dr. Matheson said emails showed it was business as usual, continued pushback. Kenny’s hysteria is in check. Dr. Matheson said Phillips put forth information regarding a health problem with MJ, qualified by Ortega hysteria. Dr. Matheson: When you get information, you need to act on that information rather than label it as hysteria.
Bloss asked if an athlete doesn’t want to get out of the game, what should a doctor do. "The role of the physician is to make the right decision for the short term and the long term," Dr. Matheson said. "May have to do it over the objection of the player," Dr. Matheson explained.
Bloss: Does the fact that AEG hired Dr. Murray at the behest of MJ make a difference?
Dr. Matheson: AEG chose to set up that structure and they didn’t have to do that
Bloss: How about the fact AEG would be repaid through the proceeds of the tour?
Dr Matheson: The conflict of the interest is still present
Dr. Matheson: Although we expect all professionals to act in the best interests of the patient, their judgement is often affected.
AEG cross
AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did re-cross of Dr Matheson. Bina asked if Stanford reviewed his credit prior to his hire. He said no.
Bina: In general a 50 year old man is competent to chose his personal physician?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
Bina: Dr. Murray was just going to treat MJ and family, not Kenny Ortega or others on tour?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
Bina: It was everyone’s interest to play the entire show?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
Bina asked if Dr. Matheson is an expert in general medical ethics. He answered no.
Dr. Matheson explained plaintiffs chose him because there was a 3 way relationship analogous to the sports industry. Dr. Matheson reviewed Det. Martinez' testimony, half of Mr. Phillips' testimony (3 days), Kai Chaise and Travis Payne's testimony.
Bina: You are not an expert in the concert industry?
Dr. Matheson: No.
B: Never worked in entertainment industry?
Dr. M: No
Bina: You said it's the system's responsibility, but it's physician's responsibility to place the patients welfare first?
Dr Matheson: Yes
"If conflict of interest develops, it must be resolved to the patient's interest," Dr. Matheson opined; doctors have duty to patient.
Bina: If MJ demanded propofol, begged, Dr. Murray violated his duties? Assuming he did that, did he violate his duties?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
Bina: Average Medical school grad has $200,000 in debt
Dr. Matheson: Yes. Just to become a doctor is expensive
"No injuries are expected in performance as in typical team sports," Dr. Matheson said. "The physician's concerns are not going to be the same as treating a football player," Dr. Matheson explained.
Bina: Was MJ able to consent to that relationship?
Dr. Matheson: Yes, but signature line put him in contract as a participant
Bina: The only way to structure a deal would be to give $1.5 million up front?
Dr. Matheson: Should structure deal so termination and cancellation are not incorporated in deal
Bina: Do you know how the deal for Celine Dion’s doctor is structured? Or Rolling Stones?
Dr. Matheson: No
Bina: If you were setting up a tour in Europe, what would you sent up for ethical arrangement?
Dr. Matheson: I would set up a staff, conduct a comprehensive medical assessment
"Ethically you'd want an assessment of the artist," Dr. Matheson said. "It would require a team of people because there are various aspects". That is for assessment initially, Dr. Matheson explained. "Then for the tour I would hire a team of people to provide care during the tour." Dr. Matheson: I would get people who have expertise in a particular area, develop a particular group in London.
Bina: A group only?
Dr. Matheson: It is hard to imagine only one person.
Bina asked if MJ told AEG he'd want to bring his personal doctor on tour, what should AEG have done. Dr. Matheson: AEG should have said we are not experts in medical care so we want to get experts in medical care to make an assessment.
Bina: Would that eliminate the conflict of interest?
Dr. Matheson: It would minimize conflict of interest
"I found the lawyers to be very supportive of evaluating records and making my own decisions," Dr. Matheson said.
Bina: Is it fair to say that you are making more money because you agree with the plaintiffs?
Dr. Matheson: I don’t need this job
Bina: What if AEG just fronts $34 million?
Dr. Matheson: Dr. Conrad Murray would be still conflicted
"Dr. Murray would still be beholden to AEG," Dr. Matheson opined.
Dr. Matheson: My understanding is that Murray's treatment was episodic not regular.
Bina talked about May 2009 and asked if people were concerned about MJ's health. Dr. Matheson: "I don’t know if people had concerns about his health. I think people had concerns about the show."
Bina: If MJ said I want to bring my long term doctor on board, your opinion is that AEG should have said No you cannot?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
Bina: Are you aware of Gongaware's testimony on effort to get MJ to agree to London doctor but MJ saying no. AEG should not have done that?
Dr. Matheson: No. I wouldn’t. The conflict of interest is too high
Bina: Even when you believe the artist is healthy?
Dr. Matheson: It creates a risk
Bina: Is it possible to have doctor ethically go on tour with artist?
Dr. Matheson: It's possible if the conditions are right
"I don't think it's possible under the terms of this case," Dr. Matheson said.
"The greater the conflict, the increased likelihood of bad decisions will be made," Dr. Matheson opined. "He had a choice,"Dr. Matheson said. "That choice may have been to forfeit his job."
Bina: If I pay for my health care by credit care, does the credit card has the right of dictating my health care?
Dr. Matheson: No
Dr. Matheson said he's spent 100 hours on this case. He's making $500/hour, which adds up to $50k so far.
Dr. Murray's contract said 'Perform the Services reasonably requested by Producer.' Bina said the contract was supposed to read "by Artist". Dr. Matheson said if there was no reference to service requested by AEG, that sentence wouldn't be part of his opinion. "To me, this is a document that indicates what the intention was," Dr. Matheson said.
Dr. Matheson said he had to fill out a lot of forms and take a test to obtain his license in the US. Dr. Matheson is originally from Canada.
Agreement required Dr. Murray to have malpractice insurance.
Bina: Isn't the real problem in this case not Dr. Murray's feelings towards AEG, but that he gave in to Michael Jackson?
Dr. Matheson: That's part of the conflict, yes
Bina: There's nothing wrong with concert promoter to ask if there was anything they can do to help?
Dr. Matheson: Not if used those terms
Conflict of interest happened if there was influence on decision making, Dr. Matheson explained.
Bina: So you think it's appropriate for producer to dictate MJ's care?
Dr. Matheson: Phillips was the one receiving the information
Bina: But, presumably, MJ went home his doctor, right?
Dr. Matheson: There's no record of that
Bina: Do you think Mr. Phillips has the right to question MJ's health?
Dr. Matheson: Phillips has the right to say I'm concerned with your health, you can't come back to rehearsal until you're checked out.
"We want you to see a doctor before you come back," Dr. Matheson said Phillips could have told. If Jackson denied it, they should have had a discussion about it, Dr. Matheson opined. Dr. Matheson said he wasn't suggesting Phillips forced MJ to go to their doctor, but they could've taken him to ER for another set of eyes.
If MJ was severely stressed about the tour, Dr. Matheson said the producers have to listen to artist. "The artist knows their body better." Murray said he had the situation under control. The issue was that he wasn't reliable, Dr Matheson explained; he was very heavily conflicted. "Conflict of interest contributed in a very significant way in Dr. Murray's standard of care," Dr. Matheson opined. "Conflict of interest was set up, physical symptoms appeared and there was an attempt to control those," Dr. Matheson explained.
"Likely that was not a friendly meeting, that was a confrontational meeting," Dr. Matheson said about meeting where Dr. Murray left angry. Dr. Matheson:
The concern should be for the artist's health. Dr. Matheson: Any time symptoms are brought forward, there's a need to be paid attention to. In this case they weren't.
Dr. Matheson said he reviewed other depositions with exhibits attached prior to his own deposition. As to Dr. Finkelstein, Dr. Matheson said he recalls Gongaware discussed possibility of doctor going on the tour with a couple of conditions.
Dr. Matheson said he doesn't believe the analogy Bina offered regarding credit card paying for your health care is related to this case.
"It's hard to leave a practice," Dr. Matheson said. He said it takes a long time to build the practice, normally doctors sells the practice. Dr. Matheson said it takes much more than 10 days to wind down a busy practice.
"A conflict of interest isn't a single event," Dr. Matheson testified. "It's a set of circumstances that develop over a period of time."
Dr. Matheson said he was not aware of any efforts to send Dr. Murray's contract drafts to MJ's people. "It says to me the agreement was being constructed and negotiated without Mr. Jackson's input," Dr. Matheson opined. "It was effectively put in place and the doctor was engaged whether Mr. Jackson signed it or not," Dr. Matheson explained. "I believe AEG indicated, the record indicates AEG acted in way they felt they employed Dr. Murray," Dr. Matheson said. "The conflict of interest environment in this case was severe," Dr. Matheson opined. He's been in this field for 35 years.
Bloss: How many as severe as the one here?
Dr. Matheson: None
Dr. Matheson said the record shows Dr. Finkelstein didn't get the job because MJ wanted to bring his own physician.
Bina: It wasn't in Dr. Murray's interest to keep MJ unhealthy
Dr. Matheson: No
As to Dr. Murray buying Propofol, Dr. Matheson said "I think AEG Live enabled it, yes."
"Conflict of interest erodes judgement unconsciously in a way you're not even aware of it," Dr. Matheson explained.
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Prince, TJ and Taj Jackson will be the next witnesses.