Jacksons vs AEG - Day 66 – August 9 2013 – Summary
Katherine Jackson is not present in court.
Source : ABC7 unless otherwise indicated
Kathy Jorrie Testimony
Kathy Jorrie is back on the stand. Jessica Stebbins Bina resumed re-direct examination. Bina showed Jorrie MJ's contract. Paragraph 13: Artistco hereby represents/warrants that Artist does not posses any known health condition injuries or ailments that would reasonably be expected to interfers with Artist's first class performance.
Bina: Who signed this?
Jorrie: Michael Jackson.
Bina: So MJ represented that he did not have any health condition that would interfere with his performance?
Jorrie: I never had any information that MJ was not in good health.
Bina: Drug problems?
J: None whatsoever
Bina: Insomnia or sleep problems?
Jorrie: Not in the least.
Bina asked if Jorrie believed Tohme was an officer of MJ company. She said yes. Bina: Did Mr. Panish show any documents that he was not an officer? Jorrie: He did not. Regarding the email Dennis Hawk, MJ's attorney, sent Jorrie on January 14, 2009, she said they wanted to replace the name of MJ's company. Bina: Before Jun 28 you had been told Tohme was an officer of the MJ's company? Jorrie: Yes. It's usually the type of representation she gets. Bina asked if Jorrie was told on June 28, 2009 that Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ's company when he received the consent document. Jorrie: That's my best recollection, I was informed that he was an officer of Michael Jackson's company. Jorrie said Tohme himself represented to her he was an officer of MJJ's company.
Jorrie said the meeting on June 28, 2009 was called by John Branca, co-executor of MJ's Estate, co-executor John McClain was on the phone. She said Frank DiLeo and various AEG reps were also present at the meeting and Tohme was there speaking about things having to do with MJ. "Dr. Tohme was there discussing MJ's business in front of everybody," Jorrie testified. "Nobody challenged Dr. Tohme or his presence." Jorrie said Dr. Tohme signed this document. She said she has seen Frank DiLeo's signature as well approving the expenses. Jorrie: I'm aware that the Estate reimbursed some costs. Bina asked if Weitzman told her Tohme had been fired but nevertheless the Estate agreed to reimburse AEG for production costs. Jorrie: Correct
Bina asked if Woolley forwarded Jorrie an email saying Dr. Murray was fully engaged in Mr. Jackson's treatment in May. She said no.
Bina: Did it surprise you Dr. Murray was fully engaged and treating MJ in May 2009?
Bina: Why not?
Jorrie: Because I understood from Murray that he was MJ's personal physician for 3 yrs
B: Did Murray tell you that?
J: He did
Bina asked if Jorrie told Dr. Murray to stop treating MJ until they had an agreement. She said no. Jorrie: The reason is that Dr. Murray was Mr. Jackson's physician and it would not be my place to tell him not to provide services. Jorrie said MJ had been his patient for many years.
Bina: Did Dr. Murray need an agreement with AEG Live to treat patients?
Jorrie: No, he did not need an agreement from AEG Live to perform services to his patients, including Michael Jackson.
Jorrie read graph 9 of the contract, "Artist Consent." It says that without the express written consent of MJ the contract was not valid. Jorrie: This is an independent contract agreement. Dr. Murray was MJ's physicians, retained to and in the expense of the artist.
Bina: You didn't put any provision for Dr. Murray to be supervised by AEG Live?
Jorrie: Of course not.
Bina: Are there any words in agreement that says Murray can only use medical equip approved, bought by AEG?
Jorrie: There's no such wording. Jorrie said there was also no word about Dr. Murray having to use only equipment provided by AEG to treatMichael Jackson.
Bina: Did Dr. Murray ever ask you for any equipment?
Bina asked about end date of contract. Original date was Sept. 2009, but Dr. Murray asked it to be changed to March 2010, Jorrie said. Bina asked Jorrie why she didn't check with MJ or his reps about changing the end date of the contract. Jorrie explained they were negotiating a contract to a place where Dr. Murray was happy with the agreement. She said it would then be presented to MJ and his representatives for approval.
Bina: Did you ever send the signed agreement to MJ?
Jorrie: No, I didn't.
B: Why not?
J: Michael Jackson passed away.
Jorrie used as template an independent contract agreement used in the King Tut exhibition. It was between an individual and affiliate of AEG. There is no mention of artist consent in that contract, it was not a service to an artist. Jorrie said she took out the conflict provisions because they dealt with conflict of interest for the individual working for a competitor. She said that provision was no applicable to Murray. Jorrie also took out provision "Intellectual Property" since it was not applicable also.
Bina asked if Jorrie's understanding was that Dr. Murray was making one million dollars a month. She said he understood his medical practice brought in a million dollars, from which he had to pay his expenses, nurses, medical equipments.
Jorrie said from the conversation she had with Dr. Murray she did not understand he was going to close his medical practices to go on tour. "He told me he was leaving the practices to go on tour with MJ," Jorrie explained. Dr. Murray never told her he was closing his practices.
Jorrie found that there were two places of businesses associated with Dr. Murray and his medical licenses. Jorrie: I found Dr. Murray was licensed to practice medicine in 4 states, no disciplinary action against him in any state. The clinics she found were in Nevada and Texas, Jorrie said. "The 2 places of businesses that I assumed were clinics." Jorrie: It was just spot check, I checked his medical licenses, there were no disciplinary actions, company was legit, everything matched. "I had no reason to doubt the information given to me was incorrect," Jorrie said. "There were no red flags." Jorrie: I didn't think it was my place to check Michael Jackson's physician, who he had for many years.
Panish then did re-cross of Jorrie.
Jorrie said GCA Holdings was a legitimate company, its license had not be suspended. Panish: Did you bill AEG for the research you did? Jorrie: It was 10 minutes of research and it was part of preparation of Murray's contract. Jorrie explained she would not have entered into the invoice a spot check of Dr. Murray's licenses/company. Panish: Does your time entry has anything about check you did on Murray? Jorrie said she needs to look at the documents to refresh memory.
Jorrie said a red flag is when things come up that alerts her to evaluate further. Panish: There were no red flags raised in the 10-minute search you did on Dr. Murray, correct? Jorrie: That's correct. Jorrie said she was checking to make sure the information Dr. Murray gave her were correct.
Panish: Did you ever do a google search for Michael Jackson Company? Jorrie: No. Jorrie said she went on to the Delaware Secretary of the State website to check Michael Jackson's company. Panish: MJ's company was a sole member LLC, wasn't it? Jorrie: That I don't recall when I looked at it. Jorrie said she believes she has a copy of the Delaware Secretary of the State of when she checked MJ's company. Panish: Did you bill your client for that work? Jorrie: I don't recall, I have to look at the time and see whether or not I billed them. Jorrie said she never received any document from Shawn Trell stating anyone else as officer of Michael Jackson's company. Panish: Did you ever contact Delaware Secretary of State to see if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ LLC? Jorrie: No. Jorrie did not contract John Branca, co-executor to be, to check if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ's LLC.
Jorrie said Mr. Tohme did not sign the consent document in her presence. She gave him the document for review.
Panish: Were you aware Dr. Tohme was supposed to get paid $200,000 for signing this document?
Jorrie: I wasn't aware, sir.
Panish: Were you aware the budget called to pay Dr. Murray $450,000?
Jorrie: I was not aware, sir.
Jorrie said the budget had to be approved prior to any payment. She testified she never asked Branca if Tohme was officer of MJ's company.
Jorrie said she saw Dr. Murray was licensed for cardiovascular something. He was also licensed in internal medicine. Panish asked if there's such a things as cardiovascular license. "I told you what I remember seeing," Jorrie explained. Panish: Did you see his internal medicine license had lapsed in 2008? Jorrie: No, I don't remember seeing it. Panish: Is your testimony that Dr. Murray was licensed in internal medicine and cardiovascular? Jorrie: It's my testimony under oath that's what I saw 4 years ago, yes.
Jorrie said she told Dr. Murray he would get paid once the contract was fully executed. Jorrie sent all drafts of the contract to Trell and AEG, but never sent them to Michael Jackson or his representatives. This was the 1st time Jorrie negotiated a contract for an artist's physician. She never researched about third party contract for artist/doc
Jorrie said she did not go out of her way to check Dr. Murray's credit report, debts, outstanding child support claims. Panish asked if Jorrie was copied on any of the chain email "Trouble at the Front." She said she was not. Jorrie said the only medical check she's aware of that Michael Jacksonunderwent was for the insurance company.
Jorrie said Howard Weitzman may have told her about the dispute in termination of Dr. Tohme.
In re-re-direct, Bina asked: Why didn't you ask John Branca if Dr. Tohme was officer of the company? Jorrie said Branca was a co-executor to be and she believed he would not know the answer. He had been MJ's attorney for a week. Jorrie thought Dr. Tohme would be the most appropriate to ask whether he was an officer of MJ's company or not.
Bina: Did u think there was conflict of interest in the contract? "I believe that there wasn't contractual conflict of interest" Jorrie said Jorrie explained MJ and Dr. Murray's interests were aligned, to treat him and keep him healthy while performing at the O2 arena.
In re-re-cross, Panish asked if Jorrie has expertise in medical conflict of interest. She said she's not an expert in medical conflict.
Jorrie said she read that Branca represented MJ about 10 years before.
Panish: AEG didn't have to have a contract with Dr. Murray, right?
Jorrie: It was an accommodation, sir.
Panish asked if there was anything preventing AEG from preparing the contract with Dr. Murray and giving it to MJ. She said no.
In re-re-re-direct, Bina asked if MJ specifically asked AEG to draft the contract for Dr. Murray and advance funds necessary?
in re-re-re-cross, Panish rebutted: And AEG could've refused it, right?
Randy Jackson Video Deposition
A jury heard videotaped testimony Randy Jackson, who described more than half a dozen interventions his family attempted to try to get Michael Jackson to stop taking prescription medications. Randy Jackson, the pop superstar’s younger brother, said several of his siblings were involved in the efforts, and they occasionally brought interventionist doctors to try to convince their brother to go into rehab. The superstar always refused and kept his family at a distance in the final years of his life, Randy Jackson said. Randy Jackson says the interventions took place in diverse locations including New York, Las Vegas, Jackson’s Neverland Ranch and Taiwan and dated back to the mid-1990s. However, he said he did not talk to his brother much in the five years before his death and was unable to get into his rented mansion during the period before he died because security guards blocked his access. “Michael didn’t want to be around the family too much because he didn’t want them to see him like that,” Randy Jackson said. “He was hiding from me.” He said most of the interventions were attended by his sisters Rebbie and Janet and his brothers, Tito, Marlon, and his father, Joe Jackson. But he said his mother only came along once or twice. He said she was unwilling to accept that Michael was addicted and he felt “she was in denial. She just didn’t want to believe.” Randy Jackson said his brother was terrified during the run-up to his 2005 child molestation trial in Santa Maria. At one point Randy Jackson said he had to take his brother to a hospital because “he was under the influence of something.” He said he had no idea what drugs Jackson was taking. “He was very frightened, and I had to get him to court,” Randy Jackson said. (AP)
He said almost every time he tried to intercede it was after a call from a nanny who cared for Michael Jackson’s children and told him the singer was over using prescription drugs. He said he never saw his brother take drugs but twice saw him in a condition where he was slurring his speech. He said he later fired the nanny after he encountered her at a pharmacy picking up prescriptions for the singer. Randy Jackson said he never heard of the drug Propofol until after his brother died from an overdose of the anesthetic. Randy Jackson also testified that at one point he wrote a letter to his entire family, including his mother, saying they needed to help Michael. “He’s an addict, and he isn’t responsible. The family has to step in and do something about it,” Jackson also said his brother refused repeatedly to go to rehab. “I told him I was taking him to rehab and he said he’s not going. I told him, ‘Yes, you are.’ And he would say ‘No, I’m not,’” Randy testified. (CBSLA)
Michael Jackson suffered a secret near-overdose in Beverly Hills in 2005 and deflected more than a half-dozen drug interventions staged by his concerned relatives, a Los Angeles jury heard Friday. The near overdose, meanwhile, came after the trial at a house in Beverly Hills called Shadow Wood, according to the video testimony. Randy Jackson said Rwaramba called him in a panic after Jackson purportedly took too much of a prescription obtained in her name. He said Jackson was out of it and talking in "slurred speech" while his kids and guests were inside the residence. "He was certainly under the influence of something that was altering his normal way of functioning," Randy Jackson recalled. The brother said he confiscated all the drugs he could find and was downstairs getting something to eat when he heard Jackson had "collapsed."Randy Jackson also testified that his family staged at least 10 interventions to try and get the pop star off various addictive prescription drugs. Randy Jackson said he picked his brother up off the floor, put him on a bed and raced around the corner to get a doctor. He said the doctor gave Jackson something to "counter" the effects of the overdose and said not to leave the pop icon's side. "Somebody should sleep next to him, make sure he doesn't vomit or choke, anything like that," the doctor said, according to Randy Jackson. He recalled as many as 10 attempted interventions with Jackson that started in Taiwan during one of the singer's tours and also included an intervention in a New York hotel in 2000, about "four or five" surprise trips to Neverland Ranch and an attempt at Jackson's Las Vegas residence after the 2005 trial. Randy Jackson said he even wrote a letter to all his family members explaining his concern that his brother was an addict. "I copied everybody on it. Everyone. I made sure everybody knew it. I would say he has — he's an addict, and at this point, addicts aren't so responsible for what they do," he said. He said it was "upsetting" to him that Rwaramba seemed to be supplying drugs to his brother and then calling him to pick up the pieces. He said he would race to pharmacies to confront her over her actions. Randy Jackson said his brother didn't like the interference and would "isolate" himself, especially during the last year of his life. "I wasn't afraid to say no to him. So he would really -- he would, like, get physical with me because — and I wouldn't be afraid to say no to him. But he's like 90 pounds, so it wouldn't do much," Randy Jackson with a laugh. Asked if his mom believed Jackson had a problem, Randy Jackson said she was "in denial." "She didn't want to believe it," he said. He said Jackson knew how to "sweet talk" his mom. (NYDailyNews)
First deposition was on Nov 6, 2012.
Q: Do you know Grace Rwamba?
A:Yes, and fired her too.
A: Because he asked me to.
Q: Your brother Michael did?
The attorneys stipulated the firing occurred in 2004/2005.
Randy said he and Michael were pretty close, since they were close in age. Randy said he doesn’t remember when it was the last time he spoke with MJ. He said MJ was traveling.
Q: Did you call him in 2009?
A: I don’t remember
Q: Did you see him in 2009?
A: I don’t remember
Randy said Frank Dileo was MJ’s manager. “From what I understand until my brother passed,” he explained. There was a time he was the manager, then not manager, then manager again, Randy said.
Q: Your brother didn’t want to see you and you went to see him?
Q: Couple occasions?
A: Yes, 3 or 4 times
I wanted to make sure he was ok, Randy testified.
MJ’s brother said one intervention was in Vegas, then in NY then LA. Randy remembered 3 times and intervention being attempted. Because I had received call that he had been abusing prescription drugs, Randy said. Grace called him, he’s sure if she called anyone else. Randy said it was around the time of the trial, doesn’t know if before or after, not sure. MJ was staying in Vegas. Randy said he went there with Jackie, Rebbie, maybe Janet, maybe Marlon. Randy said he spoken with Grace, the other siblings spoke with her too. “We may have had a conference call.”
Q: Have you ever believed MJ was abusing prescription drugs before?
Grace called Randy before about MJ using prescription drugs. He said she called him two or 3 times before. Randy confronted MJ every time Grace called him. Randy said security told him MJ didn’t want to see him. Just drive in and walked in the house. The gate was open, I just drove in walked in.
Q: Did you see MJ?
A: Yes. I told him him I was taking him to rehab,” Randy said. “He said he was not going. I said you are, he said I’m not
MJ didn’t go to rehab. Randy said the other siblings told MJ the same thing, to go to rehab.
Q: Did he admit having a problem?
Q: Did he deny he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?
Q: Did he say whether or not he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?
A: No. No he didn’t say it
They were with MJ for 2 hours. Randy said MJ told him ‘Don’t worry, I’m okay. I’m not gonna go.’
Q: Did he seem ok?
A: At the time yes
Q: Did you leave thinking he had a problem?
Q: When was next discussion?
A: That may have been the last time, maybe. There were prior times. It was just around the Santa Maria trial, Randy said. “It was after, I think.”
Q: Up until the time of his passing you never discussed it with him again?
Q: Why not?
A: I hadn’t gotten call from Grace or anyone
Randy said Leonard Rowe told him MJ may have prob w/ prescription drug. He guessed it was around time shows in London were being prepared. Randy: No, let me correct that. Initially we were playing on our tour, the brothers tour. There was concern then.
Q: Did you ever discuss that with your parents?
Q Their reaction?
A: Him not getting the help that he needed.
Randy said he doesn’t know if the parents talked to MJ. Randy and Janet had a doctor in the mix for the Vegas intervention. He was an experienced interventionist, Randy testified.
Q: How did you know that?
A: He told me
Q: Had you met him before?
A: No. Internet, maybe
Q: Was this Mr. Webb?
A: No. I don’t recall
Q: Besides siblings and the doctor was there somebody else who went?
A: I don’t recall who the 2nd guy was. I didn’t arrange it, Janet knew
They talked to MJ while there, Randy said. He doesn’t remember specifically what was said, but that the family loved him, wanted to help. Randy said he met the interventionist doctor at Madeo for lunch, probably met doctor one time prior as well. He said he wanted to know just what they do and what is the procedure here, what they suggest. Randy discussed MJ’s stint in rehab before with the singer. Randy said he thinks it was one time that MJ was in rehab. Randy said he told the doctor there had been prior attempts to get MJ help and they weren’t successful, needed professional help. Randy discussed with the doctors the attempted interventions. Randy did not speak with the doctors again after that. Besides Michael, just security was present.
Q: You mentioned another one in NY?
Randy believes the NY attempt happened prior to the Vegas time. He said he was worried about MJ, about “prescription,” “prescription abuse.” Grace had called Randy each time. Janet, Rebbie and Tito were with Randy in NY. It happened in early to mid-2000. Grace called him, he called the family, other family members, Rebbie, Tito, Janet, Randy said. You need to get down here, Randy said Grace told him. She didn’t need to say anything else. “Because, my brother,” Randy explained. Randy went with family only to the NY intervention.
Q: Did he agreed to see you?
A: I guess, I just walked in.
He wouldn’t go Randy said about his attempt to take MJ to rehab.
Q: Did you tell him to go?
Q: Did he tell you he wouldn’t?
Randy doesn’t remember the details of the conversation, whether MJ admitted or not abusing prescription drugs. MJ didn’t go to rehab, Randy didn’t tell the parents, he said he didn’t want to stress them out. Randy called Grace. “She told me that he cleaned up,”
A: Because I was there, probably.
Randy testified the brothers just talked to him. “Just tell him that his family loves him, concerned for him.”
Q: Did he clean up after LV intervention?
Randy: He stopped using these things, as fas as I know, he stopped using it. I learned it from Grace, pretty much Grace. Randy doesn’t know how he cleaned up. The intervention at the Ranch occurred after NY. He got a call from Grace “You need to get down here.” Randy told siblings, Rebbie, brothers, Janet. They had another conference call. The parents were not on the call. Randy: I think my mom found out about the Grace. My family went with me, he said.
Q: Did you mom go?
A: I think so. Janet, Rebbie, no Marlon, not sure LaToya, no Jermaine, Tito maybe, Jackie
Randy said he just walked in. One the brothers went over fence to open the gate
Q: Because security won’t let you in?
A: Yes. We don’t ask
MJ didn’t want to go to rehab that time either. The brothers stayed a few hours. It was just family, no doctors.
Q: Believe your brother had problem with prescription drug?
Q: Did MJ deny he had a prob with prescription drugs?
Q: He also refused to go to rehab?
I didn’t believe him, Randy testified. Just leaving there all the brother talked about it, Randy said. Other family members didn’t believe him either. My mom didn’t believe it, Randy explained. “But it’s my mom, she didn’t want to believe it.”
After the Las Vegas intervention, Randy said he watched MJ clean up. He was around, it was around Santa Maria trial. He just did it and got ready for the trial, Randy explained. MJ never discuss any drug problem with Randy ever.
They were at the Ranch for 2/3 hours. Randy discussed with MJ the Ranch intervention after. I told him I wanted him to go to the therapist with me, Randy described. He said this was after Santa Maria trial, which took over things
Randy said he went to visit Frank DiLeo in the hospital after he was in a coma. He knew DiLeo for 20-30 years. Randy learned DiLeo came back as MJ’s while the O2 show was being put together.
Q: Was he a good manager?
Q: Did MJ talk to you about his burned scalp?
A: Yes. He said it was painful.
I went to visit him at the hospital, Randy said about MJ. He never discussed with MJ insomnia, sleeping problems.
Randy did not know about MJ taking anesthesiologists on tour. Randy said he never saw MJ take prescription drugs or illegal drugs. He never heard of propofol or diprivan prior to MJ’s death.
Q: Did your brother ever discuss taking medication to sleep?
I never got a call about illegal drugs, Randy explained.
Q: When did you first come to believe MJ had a prob with prescription drugs?
A: I guess it was Grace.
The first time was in Los Angeles, she called me, Randy said. It was around 2000, year 2000. She just told me she was concerned, Randy described. “Because he was using prescription medication too much.”
Q: What medicine?
A: Sedatives, whatever they call them, sedatives.
Randy didn’t talk to MJ about it at this point. He talked to Rebbie. “I was investigating about it, talking to people around him.” Randy: Also, as I recall, I tried calling a doctor in Vegas and a doctor in Florida, but they wouldn’t talk to me about it. Randy said he forgot the doctors’ names. He talked to doctor friends he knew about his concerns of MJ’s prescription drug abuse.
Q: Was he addicted?
A: I don’t know, I wasn’t sure, I wasn’t clear on it.
Randy: Just excessive use, maybe, I don’t know if I would call that an addict, I’m not a doctor.
Q: Did he ever tell you he had a problem with prescription drugs?
Q: Did you ever discuss you believed your brother had a problem with prescription drugs with your mother?
That was after the second attempted intervention at Neverland, Randy testified, which was the same as the one his mother attended. Randy said he had a phone call with his mother, he initiated the conversation. I told her that we need to plan an intervention and that, her being a mother, because she was there.
Q: Did your mother ever tell you she believed your brother had problem w/ prescription drugs?
A: No, no, she didn’t tell me that believed
Randy said he and his father tried to call MJ while he lived at Carolwood home. “We were unsuccessful,” he said. Randy: There was a drug issue. He wasn’t eating. All of these things were happening at the same time. And, you know, a lot of pressure. Randy: Leonard Rowe was involved very much in the shows and was giving reports to me that he didn’t look too good. Randy said they were concerned about prescription abuse around the time MJ was living at the Carolwood house. Randy had already selected a rehab facility to take MJ. It was in the Bay area, San Francisco. The same place were interventionist worked
Randy said his brother didn’t drink. “I never seen him drink alcohol.”
Q: From 2000 until the time that your brother passed were there periods you believed he didn’t problem with prescription drugs?
Second part of the deposition was taped on March 26, 2013.
Randy said Michael enjoyed touring.
Q: Why do you say that?
A: Well, because we like to tour, perform.
Q: Did you ever see any signs he was on prescription meds on tour?
Other than the times Randy described in the last deposition, she said saw signs MJ was on prescription medications at home. Randy said this was in 2005 at the Shadow Wood home in Beverly Hills. “He was under the influence of something.” Randy said his speech was slurred. Then Grace, his nanny, would tell me all the time, “You need to get over here. Something’s not right.” I went over to help him out and take everything away as I could, Randy testified. Grace called Randy again to come over. “She needed help with him. He wasn’t doing so well.”Randy: We had discussed this before, so I kind of knew what was going on.
Q: And what did you see when you went over there?
A: He was certainly under the influence of something that was altering his normal way of functioning. I tried to get help him some help.
Randy said he tried to take everything away, from Grace too. “It was ironic because she was giving it to him but complaining about it.” Randy said some prescription drugs were in Grace’s name. “It was upsetting to me. I think she had a hard time saying no to him.”
Q: You just looked around the house and took bottles?
A: I made her show where everything was.
Randy: Because what good would it be to help him if you’re leaving stuff there?
Randy said there wasn’t much to talk to MJ then. “Yes, I could talk to him but I’d pick my moments. I’d wait till he’d be a bit more in tune
Q: Did he tell you what he was taking specifically?
Q: Did you do anything else besides take it away?
A: I went downstairs, I think he had some friends over. And I went downstairs to eat something.
Randy: They ran downstairs and told me that he had collapsed. And I went upstairs. I picked him up, put him on the bed, it was pretty late. Randy: And as I recall, I called my doctor who lived literally around the corner. My doctor came over and took care of him, said he’ll be ok Randy said the doctor gave MJ something that would counter, help counter whatever it is he had done. Just let him rest it off. Somebody should sleep next to him, make sure he doesn’t vomit or choke, anything like that, doc told Randy. Randy instructed one of the Cascios to sleep next to MJ. He stayed overnight as well. Next morning, Randy said MJ was sleeping pretty late. “I wanted to make sure he was ok, then I left,” he asked MJ next day if he remembered what happened. He said MJ replied “no, no, but I heard.” He said he took it to help him sleep, and he said it was a mistake and that he was sorry about it, Randy testified. I was just kind of taken aback by it, maybe, he said.
Q: Did you have concerns about MJ at that point?
Randy: I staged several interventions and set up, tried to get him help many times.
Q: You mentioned Grace would call but was getting him medication?
A: Yes. A few times I would meet her at the pharmacy.
Interventions: NY, Neverland, Las Vegas
Q: Were there any other?
A: It was more than one at Neverland.
There were a few over there. I don’t know, maybe 4 or 5, Randy responded. It was around 2004, 2005. Or 2005-06. Randy said he was spending a lot of time with him, so he kind of got close look at what was going on.
Randy wrote letters to my family about MJ’s problem and that they had to do something to help.
Q: Who did you send the letter to?
A: Everybody, copied everybody. I made sure everybody knew it.
Randy: He’s an addict, and at this point, addicts aren’t so responsible for what they do. Randy: So this is where the family needs to step in and do something about it because their desire becomes physical.
Q: Did you send it to your mother as well?
A: Everybody got a copy of it.
He wrote the letter down on paper and had assistant copy it. He said not everybody in his family looks at email.
Q: Did you get responses?
A: I think everyone was in shock, maybe a little denial. I always got responses, my dad, Rebbie and Janet, always
Randy: No, my mom no. As a mom, I guess maybe it was hard for her, you know, for a mother to see that.
The 4-5 interventions at Neverland were between 2004-2006. “One of them included my mom,” Randy said. Rebbie and Janet went on all of them, except one or two.
Q: Describe the 3-4 additional interventions:
A: First one at Neverland, not the one that KJ was present. Janet, myself, Rebbie. Maybe my mom was at that one. I think my mom was there.
Katherine was at one intervention only, Randy said. “That must’ve been the first one, around 2002-2003, at Neverland.
Randy said Rebbie and Janet were always supportive, always with him. “My dad also.”
Q: What happened when you arrived at Neverland?
A: I think that time he wasn’t there.
Randy didn’t speak with MJ that day. He said people would tip MJ off. “So it’s bad news. Randy’s coming to shake things up.”
After Vegas, there were no more interventions, Randy said. “I tried to get him help but I couldn’t get as many people to stage intervention” Randy tried to jump the gate a few times. “My dad and I tried a few times to get him help.” Shadow Wood home was 50-thousand square feet. Randy said he hated it, it was just too big.
Randy: Michael wouldn’t want to really be around his family too much, I think because he didn’t want us to see him that way, specially me
Q: Could you give a range if years that this was happening?
A: It happened over a period of time, when I was, he stopped doing it also.
Randy: When I was helping with the situation in Santa Maria I was able to make it stop. I fired Grace, stoped it from coming in.
Randy said MJ would really, really enjoyed being around his children. He would cook for them. He was in a great place, Randy said. “Then Grace came back around and he started using it again. I was very pissed off about it.” Randy said he started right before Santa Maria trial but he got MJ clean. He told Rebbie “don’t leave his side” because I didn’t trust Grace. Randy: I fired her again, I noticed when she was around there was a pattern. Whenever she’s around, he’s wasted. So I fired her again.
Q: Were all of the interventions were before the Santa Maria trial?
A: There was one after, the Vegas was after.
Randy: He was using it again because there was a… it was quite disturbing to me. Randy: There was a People Magazine article coming out talking about his drug use. Grace told him that I was behind putting this article out. Randy: Grace and actually Raymone Bain because I fired them both. I fired them both that’s probably whay they said it, Randy opined. “It had nothing to do with me.”
Randy said MJ got people in his family to sign a letter that was on People Mag saying he never used drugs. “I was really disturbed by that.” He said he wasn’t behind the article, but didn’t sign the letter. Janet, Rebbie and his dad didn’t sign it either. The letter was MJ’s idea, Randy said.
Q: Did you mom sign it?
A: My mom, LaToya, all my brothers.
Randy: My mom, you know, she would mever want to believe it. She’s a mom, you know. I felt bad for my her.
Randy: Did she ever believe he had a problem? Yeah, but I think she was in denial, she didn’t want to believe it.
Randy: MJ didn’t want to talk to me too much. Because maybe I wasn’t afraid to say no to : He would get physical with me, I wouldn’t be afraid to say no. But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn’t do much.
Randy said MJ was really scared before the Santa Maria trial. And somehow Grace was able to get him something. Randy: He didn’t want to go to court. He didn’t show up to court. And I was freaking out because it was on the news. Randy: I went to hospital MJ said “I don’t know what you’re thinking. I’m not walking into that courtroom so don’t even think about it Randy. Randy: And I said “Okay, but you are going to court.” He goes “No, I’m not.” Q: Was he in the hospital because he had reaction to his drug use? Randy: No. He was in the hospital because he didn’t want to go to court. Randy said that when Grace was around MJ, he was under the some kind of influence. “But we had him go to court and had the doctor with him”. Randy: Then I later found out she had gotten him a patch. I was livid. Randy doesn’t know what kind of patch it was. He said MJ had slurry speech. “He was really frightened to go to that courtroom.”. Randy: He didn’t know who to trust, because people around him were lying to him, telling him things just to secure their positions.
Those were the only two times Randy saw him under the influence. “I’d get calls from Grace all the time,” he said. Randy said the last time Grace called was a long time ago. “I made my presence known, there wasn’t lot more. She didn’t need to call.”Randy: He was doing good in Ireland from what I recall. 06-7, 07-08 around that time.
Q: Do you know if he slept well while on tour?
A: He slept well
Randy said MJ had no issues sleeping that he knew of.
Randy: My dad and I tried to get the house at Carolwood. They wouldn’t let me through. My brother didn’t want me to see him like that.
Q: Who did you see there?
A: Security guard.
They told Randy “he’s not here, he’s not there.” Randy questioned if he wasn’t there why they had the gate closed. “Open it up, no big deal” After being turned down, Randy would then go home.
Q: After Carolwood, did you or father take any other action?
A: No, after that time no.
Randy talked about interventions in NY, Neverland, Las Vegas. And there was another intervention in Taiwan.
Q: Did you go to Taiwan?
A: Yes, with Rebbie and some family members
MJ was doing shows in Taiwan. Randy said what spurred him to go to Taiwan was the fact that he needed help, he was far away, we said we need to go. Randy: I didn’t know anything but we had heard things. That’s why we were there. Randy said in Taiwan they visited him, gave him family love, wanted to make him feel comforted so he wouldn’t think about doing those things
Q: Did he seem he was using drugs at that time?
A: Yes, his speech was slurred, but nothing terrible.
That was probably the first one, the first intervention, Randy said.
Q: Was MJ isolating himself?
A: Yeah, he would do that.
Q: Was he doing it in the 5 years before his death? Isolated?
A: Oh, parts, parts of it.
Q: Did you speak with him regularly?
A: I don’t talk to anyone in my family regularly.
Sometimes he would isolate himself because he didn’t want people to hear his voice Randy said.
Q: Because he might be using drugs?
Randy: After MJ died, everyone was shocked. I was really displeased with all the stuff that was going on in court with Branca, Weitzman. Randy: We were still trying to figure out how to grieve, and these people are in court, and will, and this nonsense. I haven’t even buried my brother yet, Randy said.
Randy said he pushed everything to the side and was getting together this memorial for him and did it with AEG, Kenny Ortega and those guys.
Q: Did you have a positive experience with AEG?
A: Horrible! (laughs) No, I’m just joking. They were nice. They were very nice.
Randy: I practically slept there to put the show together.
Q: Do you recall telling Randy Phillips that you see that Michael was fortunate to have AEG involved in his return to the stage?
A: I don’t remember saying that, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t say it. I kind of felt that way at the time.