Jacksons vs AEG - Day 69 – August 14 2013 – Summary
Katherine Jackson is in court
Debbie Rowe Testimony
AEG Direct
Deborah J. Rowe on the stand. AEG attorney Marvin Putnam is conducting the direct examination. She's testifying pursuant to a subpoena. (ABC7)
Putnam: How are you doing today? Rowe: It's a little warm in here.
Putnam: Did you do anything to prepare for your testimony today? Rowe: I took a shower (people laughed). (ABC7) When Putnam asked if she did anything to prepare for her testimony, Rowe quipped, “Took a shower.” She hadn’t read her deposition or did any of the other steps many other witnesses had taken to prepare for her testimony. (AP)
Putnam named several attorneys for both sides and asked Rowe if she knew them. She knew some by name only, mostly she said no. (ABC7) Putnam also tried to establish her as an independent witness, getting her to states she came to court because of a subpoena, not voluntarily. Rowe was also asked whether she had met most of the attorneys in the room. She said no. He also asked about other plaintiffs’ attorneys. Putnam rattled off the names of Sandra Ribera, Perry Sanders, Kevin Boyle, KC Maxwell, Michael Koskoff and others. She didn’t know them. (AP)
Rowe started out fairly at ease on the witness stand, asking AEG Live’s defense attorney Marvin Putnam to get her testimony done today. She explained that she lives 60 miles away and it was a tough commute. “I sat at a light for 20 minutes. How do you people do it?” (AP) Rowe said she lives 60 miles away. "I sat in traffic at a light for 20 minutes! 20 minutes! " (ABC7)
"He became a patient, that's how I met him," Rowe said about MJ. (ABC7)
Rowe said she breeds and trains quarter horses and paint horses for 10 years. She was born in Spokane, Washington. Rowe's father was a pilot for the Air Force. Her parents divorced, the kids moved to Los Angeles. Rowe was 11. She went to Hollywood High, Valley College, studied to be a nurse tech, EMT, began working with Dr. Klein. Rowe studied to be EMT -- Emergency Medical Technician. She worked for extern time with Shaffer ambulance company. Rowe began working with Dr. Klein in July 1978-79. She said she's not good with dates, but is good with facts. "I hated history," she jokes. She graduated high school in 1977, went to college for a year, EMT class and then began working at Dr. Klein. (ABC7) Rowe was then asked about her personal history. She studied to be an Emergency Medical Technician, then went to work with Klein in late 70s. Rowe repeatedly told Putnam and the jury that she was bad with dates and wouldn't be able to recall them exactly. Putnam asked Rowe a question about Klein’s prominence. “He is a legend in his own mind,” Rowe replied. Rowe stopped working for Klein in 1996 or ’97 _ she couldn’t remember when. She said Jackson pushed her to return to college. Rowe said she ended up going back to school and got a BS in psychology. She then started a horse breeding program in Palmdale. (AP)
One of the girls who studied with her worked in the insurance billing of Klein's office and said the dermatologist was looking for assistant. "He was a legend in his own mind," Rowe said about Dr. Klein. "We had a very high profile clientele." Rowe said Klein is a dermatologist, began working on skin diseases, then specialized on Botox and collagen, which he's most known for now. She worked with Dr Klein until 1997. Rowe said she'd take patients to the room, take their history, find out why they came to see the doctor. She explained the procedure, return call for the doctor, did biopsy reports, scheduled appointments. (ABC7)
"Michael encourage me to go back to college," Rowe said, that's why she left Dr. Klein's office in 97. Rowe did Antioch University for 2 1/2 years. She got a degree in psychology. Rowe left LA and started her horse breeding in Palmdale. (ABC7)
Rowe said Dr. Klein would see high profile patients after hours or weekend. She got a call from Dr. Klein and tried really hard not to go. She said even though they we not registered nurses, Dr. Klein called them nurses instead assistants. Rowe said she opened the door of the room and MJ was there. "I introduced myself, said nobody does what you do better, you're amazing." "And nobody does what I do better, I'm amazing." She said MJ laughed about it and that's when the friendship started. This was in 1982 or 84 . This was the first time, to Rowe's knowledge, that MJ went to see Dr. Klein. Putnam asked what kind of treatment it was. Rowe asked judge if she's allowed to disclose medical information about patient. Judge said yes. "He was there for acne," Rowe responded. MJ was a patient of Dr. Klein until the time he passed away. (ABC7)
Rowe said she met Jackson while working for Klein as an assistant who took patient histories and helped schedule appointments with the dermatologist and other doctors. She said she met Jackson when Klein called her in on a weekend in the early 1980s. "I opened the door to the room and Michael was there. I introduced myself and I said, 'Nobody does what you do better. Nobody. You are amazing, but nobody does what I do better. I am amazing and if we could do these amazing things on regular time, I would appreciate it.'” (LATimes) Rowe described her first meeting with Jackson in the early 1980s, when he came into Klein's office for treatment of acne. She said Klein often met with celebrity patients on weekends and after-hours so they could avoid scrutiny, and in her first meeting with Jackson she asked him to come into the office for future visits at a more convenient time. "That's when our friendship started," she said.Rowe said she would frequently talk to Jackson on the phone and eventually started to accompany him to his treatments with Hoefflin. The plastic surgeon would give Jackson propofol during procedures and the singer would be unconscious for several hours. (AP) Rowe described her first meeting with Jackson, which came outside regular business hours when she wanted to spend time with her nieces. Rowe said she told MJ that they were both at the top of their fields, and said it’d be nice if he came to the office during regular hours. She said she was very casual with patients. “Dr. Klein would call me probably the least professional assistant he had,” Rowe said. Rowe said she was a great hand holder for patients, and that Jackson appreciated her playing that role with his treatments. They met in ’82 or ’84, and the singer started coming into the office more after he was diagnosed with lupus, she said. She and Jackson sparked up a friendship, speaking on the phone often and eventually seeing each other outside the office. (AP)
Rowe said Dr. Klein would call her, but she was probably the worse nurse, not formal at all. She said she's great hand holder but not a good to have scientific discussions. And Michael liked her casualness that way. "He came in more frequently," Rowe said after MJ was diagnosed with lupus in 93. "We would speak on the phone, quite often." They spoke regularly until they were divorced. Rowe said she married MJ in 1996. They were married for 3 years. She said she didn't move to Palmdale until 2002. Rowe said besides acne, they treated MJ for lupus and vitiligo. (ABC7)
She said she doesn't remember when collagen was approved by FDA. I know for sure it was during "Dangerous" tour. Putnam said it was 1992/93. MJ was receiving collagen before the tour for acne scar. Botox was not available yet.
Putnam: Was he being given pain medication or numbing? Rowe: Not in the beginning, I think we did it without anything once or twice. Rowe said they'd give MJ 100 mg of Demerol intramuscular. "I gave him the injection," she said. "Because of the pain of collagen injection." “He had a low tolerance for pain," Rowe said. Putnam: Where there other drugs for pain? Rowe: The only thing was 100 mg of Demerol.
Putnam: How about percodan? Rowe: No P: Valium? R: No. Putnam: How about Vicodin? Rowe: Not for procedures in the office. (ABC7)
Rowe begins to cry. "Michael respected doctors tremendously that they went to school and studied. And meant no harm," Rowe said, crying. "Unfortunately some doctors decided when Michael was in pain that they would try to outbid each other on who could give the better drug" "So he listened to the doctors." Rowe said the doctors were Klein and Hoefflin. MJ asked Rowe to be present to make sure everything was ok. "Michael had a very low pain tolerance," she said. "His fear of pain was incredible," Rowe said, crying. "And I think the doctors took advantage of him in that way” . Rowe: If someone comes to you and say they're the best at what they do and someone else that you see claims the same, who do you listen to? (ABC7)
Rowe described various treatments that Jackson got over the years, including botox and collagen injections for acne scars. She started to break down when she began to describe how Jackson viewed doctors. “Michael respected doctors immensely,” she said. “Unfortunately, some of the doctors decided,” Rowe said, pausing to wipe away tears, “that when Michael was in pain that they would try to outbid each other on who could get the better drug. And so he listened to the doctors.” (AP)
Doctors "would try to outbid" each other on who could give Michael Jackson "the better drug" for his pain, Rowe testified. "Michael had a very low pain tolerance and his fear of pain was incredible," Rowe testified. "And I think that doctors took advantage of him that way." (CNN)
Michael Jackson's doctors: Hoefflin -- plastic surgeon Metzger -- internist Klein – dermatologist
Rowe said Dr Sasaki prescribed Percodan and Vicodin to MJ after the scalp surgery. Sasaki's procedure on MJ was extremely painful, Rowe said. Rowe went to see MJ twice a day and over the weekend when he had the surgery. Rowe said docs Klein and Hoefflin were competing. "I was concerned that he was not getting better, the two doctors were going back and forth and I needed one doctor to talk to me. And I chose Dr. Metzger." Rowe said. She said she called Metzger as a friend, since it was probably not appropriate to call another doctor to rat out the doctor you worked for . "Klein was not doing what was the best for Michael," Rowe testified. "The only physician who ever did anything, who cared for Michael was Dr. Metzger," Rowe said, crying again. Putnam asked if there was any other doctor who treated until he passed. "Dr. Murray got in there and killed him, so I don't know," she said. (ABC7) "The only physician who ever cared for Michael as Michael was Allen Metzger," Rowe testified, referring to the doctor who became his primary care physician for several years. "So Metzger continued as his doctor?" AEG Live lawyer Marvin Putnam asked. "I don't know, because Conrad Murray got in there and killed him," Rowe replied (CNN)
Rowe said she was caught in the middle of Dr. Arnold Klein and Dr. Steven Hoefflin’s conflicting treatments of Jackson. She reached out to Jackson’s general doctor, Allan Metzger. “I needed one person to talk to me and I chose Metzger,” she said. (AP) Rowe said the pop star trusted doctors to prescribe pain medication to him, but they sometimes tried to outdo each other while losing sight of Jackson's care. "Michael had a very low pain tolerance and his fear of pain was incredible," Rowe said. "I think the doctors took advantage of him that way." She said she was with Jackson when he received treatments from his longtime dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein and from another physician, Dr. Steven Hoefflin. The two doctors would try to out-do each other in the pain medications they gave the singer, she said. "These idiots were going back and forth the whole time, not caring about him," Rowe told jurors. Rowe said she told another one of Jackson's doctors, Allan Metzger, that she was concerned that Klein and Hoefflin were giving the singer too many medications. "The only physician who ever did anything, the only physician who cared for Michael was Allan Metzger," Rowe said, fighting back tears. She said Jackson respected doctors immensely because they went to school and vowed to do no harm to patients. (AP)
Debbie Rowe testified Wednesday that doctors seemed in competition to see who could give him the most powerful painkillers. “Michael had a very low pain tolerance, and his fear of pain was incredible, and I think the doctors took advantage of him that way,” said Rowe, the mother of the singer's two oldest children. Rowe spoke in a folksy, informal manner on the stand, coming across as someone who truly cared about the singer. Rowe said that dermatologist Arnold Klein took over Jackson's pain management but that plastic surgeon Steven Hoefflin would call the singer and say, "I have a better drug." At one point, she said, she found a bottle of the powerful drug dilaudid on Jackson's counter that Hoefflin had prescribed. She said she told Jackson not to take it. “These idiots were going back and forth the whole time not caring about him," she testified. Rowe, who worked for Klein, said she was concerned that Jackson was not getting better.“Klein was not doing what was best for Michael," she said. "The only physician who who ever cared for Michael was Allan Metzger,” his internist, who was treating Jackson for lupus.She said Jackson began receiving pain medication after his scalp was burned during the filming of a Pepsi commercial. (LATimes)
Rowe said that after the burn, his scalp had scars and, because he was black, he developed keloid, thickening, painful scars. He didn't want to wear the hairpiece, Rowe said. They were going in and having ballon expansion surgery every week. "His sensitivity to pain was off the charts at this time," Rowe explained. (ABC7)
Putnam: What was your concern with Dr. Hoefflin? Rowe: Overprescribing medications. "You don't call someone and say here, let's take dilaudid instead of aspirin when you're trying to get off," she said. "These idiots were going back and forth all the time and not caring about him," Rowe said. Dilaudid is a form of morphine, she said. Putnam asked if MJ took the stronger painkiller. "No, because I took it away," Rowe said. "Hoefflin gave it to him and I said no, you're not taking it. So I threw it away." (ABC7)
"He was so afraid of pain because the pain was so great," Rowe recalled. Rowe said she ended up with Michael all the time, until the procedure was over. "I think he had to rehearse for the tour." Dr. Metzger laid out plan to reduce Demerol and substitute medication for non-narcotic. Rowe: To wean him off narcotic to non-narcotic, because he was leaving to go on tour. "I was the one giving the medication to Michael at the time," Rowe said. Rowe: He (MJ) had a place in Century City, I worked in BH, I would be there every day to take lunch, stopped before going home. She would come back if MJ needed. That lasted 6 weeks, until MJ went on tour, she said. (ABC7)
Rowe said she didn't know anything about Propofol back then. She now knows Diprivan is the same as Propofol. MJ was getting Diprivan for procedures. Rowe said she doesn't know if it was at Dr. Hoefflin or Klein's office, maybe for collagen injection . Rowe said Klein had a handful of patients who got Demerol for collagen injections. Hoefflin had an anesthesiologist and surgical suite in his office. Over the years, Rowe said Hoefflin gave Diprivan to MJ probably 10 times (ABC7)
Rowe: However, there were occasions that MJ wanted to have it, he had extensive scarring on his nose that made it difficult to breathe. Rowe said there were occasions Michael asked Hoefflin to do inject steroids on his nose, and Dr. Hoefflin would put MJ out. "He didn't treat him, he would tape him as he had injected him," Rowe testified. "It took him a little while to wake up, 4-5 hours, which I think it's normal for plastic surgeon." Rowe said when anesthetist David Fournier woke MJ up, it was maybe 1 hour for Michael to recover. With Hoefflin, she was there for 4-6 hours. Rowe explained Dr. Hoefflin said he didn't see the scaring in MJ's nose, so he wasn't going to do the procedure. Putnam: But he told Michael he had done the procedure? Rowe: Yes. Putnam asked when Propofol was used in MJ. "Only with the injections for scaring around the nose," Rowe responded. Putnam: Otherwise he would not have Propofol? Rowe: Diprivan. All the time I went to see Dr. Hoefflin he put him under. Rowe: Fournier is a nurse anesthetist, would come to the office with all the equipment to monitor Michael. Rowe: He was allowed to do it until 1996, when law changed and it had to be done at surgery center. Rowe said she doesn't remember who the person giving Diprivan was in Dr. Hoefflin's office. She described Fournier as a very nice man. Rowe said MJ got Diprivan (Propofol) when Dr. Klein injected collagen, if we had to do acne treatments. She said Dr. Klein has 5-6 patients who take Diprivan for collagen injection and Botox. (ABC7)
Rowe said she was with Jackson about 10 times when Hoefflin gave him the anesthetic propofol when he was undergoing various procedures, such as collagen and botox injections. She said Klein also gave him propofol. She said Klein had five or six other patients whom he knocked out when they were undergoing cosmetic procedures. She said there were times when extensive scarring in Jackson's nose made it difficult for him to breathe and that he needed a painful injection of steroids in his nose to bring down the swelling. On at least two occasions, Hoefflin put Jackson out with propofol and didn't do anything other than put tape in his nose, Rowe testified.However, she said she was not aware of Jackson ever going to Hoefflin's office because he was feeling stress or needed sleep. (LATimes)
Rowe said that Hoefflin told her that there were times he gave Jackson anesthesia, but performed no medical procedures. Rowe said the need to manage Jackson’s pain medications became necessary after he had scalp surgery in 1993. The amount of time that Jackson was put under for procedures varied between Hoefflin and Klein’s offices, Rowe said. When Klein performed a procedure, Jackson was often awake within an hour. At Hoefflin’s, he might be in recovery for 6+ hours, she said. Rowe said she wasn’t sure precisely which anesthetic drugs were being used at Hoefflin’s office, but some propofol was involved.(AP)
The "Thriller" singer later developed painful "thickening" keloid scars and decided to try a scalp-expansion procedure meant to stretch his healthy skin for a graft before his 1993 Dangerous tour. She said Michael was going in for weekly injections into a balloon placed under his skin and found the pressure "extremely painful." "His sensitivity to pain was just off the charts at this point," she said, explaining that she had grown close to the entertainer through her job at the office of his Beverly Hills dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein. Rowe said Dr. Klein and Jackson's plastic surgeon Dr. Steven Hoefflin were "competing" for favor at this time, and she claimed she was at Jackson's Century City residence on one occasion when she had to confiscate a prescription of Dilaudid, a powerful narcotic. "Hoefflin gave it to him, and while it was sitting on the counter I said, 'You're not taking this,'" she testified. "He was so afraid of the pain because the pain was so great. …I ended up being with him all the time until this procedure was over." She said Dr. Klein also used the surgery-strength anesthetic propofol to put Jackson under for collagen injections used to treat his acne scars. Rowe said she also witnessed propofol infusions given in Dr. Hoefflin's office. She claimed that on two occasions, Dr. Hoefflin had Jackson knocked out with propofol but didn't perform the procedures that Jackson requested.She said Jackson believed he was receiving steroid shots to reduce swollen scar tissue in his nose, but that Dr. Hoefflin claimed he didn't see any inflamed tissue. (NYDailyNews) One revelation from Rowe was that a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon faked doing a procedure on Jackson on two occasions, although he told the singer he had done it. Jackson complained about painful scars in his nose and went to Dr. Steven Hoefflin to inject them with collagen, she said. "He put Michael out and didn't do anything but put tape on him as if he had treated him," Rowe testified. The doctor told her he did that because he could not find the scars Jackson thought were there. (CNN) Rowe explained that Dr. Steven Hoefflin would give Jackson Propofol when the celeb would have his burn scars injected, and would only take the drug when having a procedure done."Michael had extension scarring in his nose that made it difficult to breath," Rowe said. "To inject the nose—I can't think of anything more painful." However, Rowe added that there were times she knew about when one doctor would just give Jackson Propofol and put him under for four or five hours without giving him treatment. She told the court that the doctor would tell Jackson that he had done a procedure when in fact he hadn't.
After lunch, Rowe is back on the stand. Putnam: How are you doing, Ms. Rowe? Rowe: I missed you... Everybody laughed. (ABC7)
Putnam asked if MJ talked about going to doctors office to sleep. "He talked with Dr. Metzger about that," Rowe said. She testified that after Hoefflin put him out, it took him 4-5 hours to wake up. Whereas in Klein's office, in one hour he was fine. "He did have trouble sleeping," Rowe said. Putnam: Did he tell you he sometimes went to a doctor to be put under to sleep? Rowe: It was he got sleep after he had the procedure done. Putnam: So he didn't get put under to get sleep? Rowe: No, I misunderstood what you asked (during her deposition). Putnam played video deposition of Rowe. (ABC7)
Putnam: And did you have an understanding MJ would seek help to sleep at doctor's office? Rowe: Not until we became friends Putnam: Did he ever discuss it with you? Rowe: Only when I was there . Putnam: Did he get sleep at doctor's office? Rowe: Sometimes Putnam: Do those include the 3 times he was out of the country? Rowe: Yes. Putnam: Why did you insist on that? Rowe: I wanted to make sure he woke up (crying) Putnam: You were insisted to be there? Rowe: Yes. Rowe: He was put down, procedure didn't take 1 hour, but for some reason the anesthesiologist put him under, he slept longer than Fournier. Rowe clarified that MJ wasn't put to sleep, he didn't have the IV running, he was in the recovery room sleeping. Rowe: For whatever reason, he was in the recovery room for 5-6 hours as opposed to an hour in our office. "I don't know what the difference in how they sedated Michael," Rowe said. Putnam: Did it concern you? "You make it sound like he was going in all the time, but he wasn't," Rowe said crying. "You're talking about a 12 year period." (ABC7)
Rowe said the scalp surgery was different from the time he was having scar tissue on his nose and couldn't breathe. She said MJ would go in sometimes every 6 months, some times sooner than that to see Dr. Hoefflin. Putnam: How often was he seeing Dr. Klein? Rowe: In the early 90s, not that often. Rowe: We tried not using an anesthesiologist, and that's when Klein suggested to use Demerol. Rowe: After his scalp surgery, it's when the issue with his pain became more of a problem. His fear of pain became a bigger issue. "He didn't have that before, the Demerol he got was enough," Rowe explained. (ABC7)
Rowe said MJ didn't come in for collagen unless he had to do a performance or appearance somewhere. (ABC7)
Putnam: Did you believe when he told you he was in pain? Rowe: Klein was injecting him in the lower eyelid, yeah, I believed him. Rowe said in the beginning when they did the collagen they were doing it on the nasal-labial fold. But the pain was closer to the nose area because of the scaring, it was turning black and blue. Rowe: When he'd lose weight, this would come up. He would lose weight because he was rehearsing. He lost 8-9 lbs of water every show he did. Rowe: It's when you get to the eyes and around the eyes, it does hurt. We didn't start doing the center of the face until later. (ABC7)
Rowe said in "Dangerous" tour (92-93) there was collagen for nasal-labial fold, acne treatment and management of lupus. Rowe said she was assigned to MJ. "He was my patient," she said. She was the assistant Michael would have. Rowe said MJ was getting Diprivan with Dr. Hoefflin because it was for surgical procedure. Rowe said after the procedure with Dr. Sasaki in 93, she was concerned with MJ's use of prescription drugs. "I don't remember if it was worse and worse (the pain), or it was just not getting better," Rowe said. (ABC7)
Rowe: MJ had seen Hoefflin, Hoefflin had given him dilaudid and MJ called Klein. Klein didn't understand anything he was saying on phone. "I left the office and stayed with him at the Sheraton," Rowe said. She believes dilauded is a morphine. Putnam: Was this around the time of the first allegations against MJ? Rowe: No. Rowe: He was heavily under the influence of whatever Hoefflin had given him. The bottle on the dresser when I walked in and I took the pills. Putnam: You took them? Rowe: I put them in my purse P: Did you tell him you were taking it? R: Yes. Putnam: What did you say? Rowe: I'm taking this, you're f***ed up, I'm sorry. Putnam: What did he answered? Rowe: He said yeah, and then I asked if he was ok. Then I unplugged all the phones in the hotel room. Rowe: He liked to talk on the phone, you couldn't understand him, I didn't want him to embarrass himself. I was there all night. Rowe said she doesn't know why MJ was at the Sheraton, she thinks he never told her. (ABC7) She also told the jury about an incident in which Hoefflin apparently gave Jackson the painkiller Dilaudid and she had to take it away. Jackson had called Klein after taking the medication and was unintelligible. Klein sent Rowe to take care of MJ at a hotel in Universal City “He was heavily under the influence of whatever Hoefflin had given him,” Rowe said. She said she confiscated a bottle of Dilaudid. Rowe dropped the F-bomb to describe what she told Jackson after taking the pill bottle. “I said I’m taking these, you’re (effed) up,” Rowe said. She apologized for the bad language. Rowe said she unplugged all the phones in the room, since MJ liked to talk on the phone and she didn’t want him to call anyone else. She stayed the rest of the night in the hotel suite to make sure Jackson was OK. She would also live with him after the scalp surgery. (AP)
Rowe said there was Dr. Sasaki in 93, Sheraton going on, MJ was getting ready for a tour, a leg of a tour, I don't know which. Rowe: We couldn't get grip of pain, Sasaki had stepped away, Hoefflin and Klein were having a pissing contest over who gave him better drugs. "Not a contest, a pissing match," Rowe said. Rowe said MJ was fine the next morning, he didn't need anything. "I didn't leave dilaudid with him and didn't leave the medication that Klein sent him," Rowe explained. Rowe said she took meds from Klein's office and she knows Hoefflin's drugs came from his office also, there was no prescription. (ABC7)
Putnam: Was Dr. Klein giving MJ Demerol? Rowe: If he was seeing Klein for acne treatment, yes. Rowe said it started with 50 mg of Demerol, Klein bumped up to 100 mg then 100 mg with 50 mg of disteril. She said the disteril was to give less demerol. Disteril is like benadryl, she explained. Rowe: There were times I'd take the Demerol out and give more Disteril. Because I didn't think he needed that much. Putnam: Did you ever tell Klein you changed the doses? Rowe: No. He was my boss, he was the doctor, he didn't need to know I called Metzger. "We couldn't get a grip on the pain, when tissue expands gets bigger and bigger gets more pain," Rowe said. (ABC7)
Putnam asked about the Fentanyl patch. Rowe said she doesn't know the details of the patch, but knows about the patch. (ABC7)
Rowe said the closer it got for MJ to go on tour, the more often it became (visits to Klein). He'd have to fly Klein and became expensive. Putnam: What were you concerned about? Rowe: It was the Demerol and him going on tour. Rowe: Michael was getting ready to go on tour, he wasn't completely off Demerol, but he was right there. "It was a fight to get him there because he had such fear the pain that would happen if we didn't catch it," Rowe recalled. "He was going so well, I didn't want anything to screw up," Rowe testified. Putnam asked what happened when she arrived at MJ's house and everything is gone. Rowe said she was told MJ's gone on tour. Rowe said she was told 'well they took him, there's nothing we could do.' Rowe: I didn't know he was leaving. I called Dr. Metzger and told how concerned I was. Rowe: I got a call back, said I needed to take all the meds I had to wean him off Demerol and take to this doctor at the Peninsula Hotel. Rowe said Metzger had given specific notes on how to give MJ the meds. "I met this doctor at the Peninsula," she said. "I offered to go over everything with him, he just grabbed the bag, said I know what I'm doing, and left," Rowe recalled crying. Rowe called Metzger and said she was concerned about what had happened. "I found out Forecast had gone 2 Bangkok, 1st thing he did he gave MJ 100mg of demerol, screwed everything up we had done" Rowe said, crying. (ABC7)
Rowe said she got concerned with Jackson’s Demerol usage after the surgery, and worked with Metzger to wean him off of it. Rowe said she lowered his doses without letting Klein know and worked with Metzger to institute a plan to get MJ off Demerol. She said it was working until Jackson abruptly left to go on another leg of the “Dangerous” tour. Rowe returned to Jackson’s condo one day and all his stuff with gone. His assistant said Jackson had left to go on tour. She said Metzger then told her to deliver Jackson’s medications and his treatment plan to a Dr. Forecast, who was going on the tour with MJ. Rowe said Forecast didn’t listen to her while she tried to describe the treatment plan. She said she later learned that “the first thing” Forecast did was give Jackson Demerol on the tour. That led to more problems. (AP) Rowe described efforts to wean Jackson off the painkiller Demerol after he had surgery in 1993 to repair damage to his scalp, which was burned while filming a Pepsi commercial. She said Metzger devised a plan to treat Jackson's pain with different medications before he went on a leg of his "Dangerous" tour. Rowe lived with Jackson for three weeks to ensure he stayed on the regimen. "At that point we were friends," Rowe said. "He wasn't a patient." She said Jackson knew he couldn't take pain medications forever but needed a strong voice to get him off the drugs. "I'm probably one of the only people who said no to him," Rowe said. Rowe said the plan to break Jackson's use of Demerol failed when a doctor who accompanied the singer on tour gave him the drug while overseas. (AP)
(Rowe then points to Jessica Bina, attorney for AEG, and says "She's mad because... what????" Judge said attorneys need to talk sometimes. (ABC7))
Putnam: Were you trying to get him off the drugs? Rowe: At the very end of this time period yes P: Why? R: Because he was going on tour. "He knew you don't stay on, you can't do narcotics forever. He knew that," Rowe recalled. Rowe said Metzger designed a plan to wean him off the drugs. She said she stayed in Century City with MJ most nights. "He was my friend," Rowe said. They were friends, he was not a patient, she said. Putnam: Did you stay to help him with surgery or get off the drugs? Rowe: Both. "He was worried about the pain," she said. "I was probably one of the only people who said no to him." Rowe: He respected the doctors and did what they were told to do by the doctors. I was concerned about what Klein and Hoefflin were doing. Metzger said he was going to talk to Klein and Hoefflin. She heard Metzger on the phone w/ Klein, said they then became using disteril. (ABC7)
Putnam: Do you think Michael was proud of what he had done? Rowe: Michael was a prideful person. Rowe said she told MJ in Mexico City that he had a problem with drugs. During the 3 week period in Century City, she didn't say it was a problem. "I said you're taking too much, you can't take this forever." Putnam: Do you know the amount of Demerol he was taking? Rowe: Dr. Metzger probably did because of the plan he had put together. Putnam: Was it a difficult 3 weeks? Rowe: It was for Michael. The fear of the pain, he was very restless. (ABC7)
Putnam: And when you went to his apartment everything was gone? Rowe: I didn't know he was leaving. That's why I was so upset that Dr. Forecast was not listening," Rowe explained. "Forecast hadn't been in on anything over last few months" "He was taking everything and being an arrogant a** about it," Rowe recalled. Rowe said she was at the Peninsula Hotel for not even 5 minutes. She met Dr. Forecast on the lobby. She said she believes there was some Demerol, Toradol, notes, everything that had been done, Metzger's number, Klein's number. Rowe said Dr. Metzger told her to bring all these to Dr. Forecast. She was told Dr. Forecast was going on tour with MJ.(ABC7)
Dr. Klein treated MJ while on tour. Rowe went with him. She remembered going on the Dangerous and HIStory tours and end of Bad tour. "Bad tour was just acne treatment," Rowe said. Dangerous tour was acne, collagen and vitiligo; HIStory acne, vitiligo, lupus, collagen. Putnam: How about Botox? Rowe: I don't think Botox was approved before I left. Putnam: How do you travel with collagen? Rowe: It's almost like you ship the seed of love from a horse in a thermos. Everyone laughed. Rowe: I'd give Demerol and Disteril and Dr. Klein would treat him. (ABC7)
Putnam: Was there a time on tour you were concerned with MJ misusing Demerol? Rowe: Mexico City. Rowe said MJ was supposed to go to Puerto Rico after Mexico City, but never made it. "He was a hot mess," Rowe said when she saw him in Mexico City. "He was depressed, he had taken something, I don't know what he had taken or he had gotten it from," Rowe recalled. "He was on something, that he was taking something. I thought he was back on Demerol," Rowe said. Rowe: I walked into the room, his suites were never a mess. The suite was a mess. He wasn't kept, he was always kept. Rowe: He wasn't making eye contact, he wasn't speaking, he didn't make sense when he did and he said was having problem with his scalp again. "We got in a fight," Rowe said. "I'm hot headed, I went off on him about Forecast." Rowe: I was angry that Forecast had intercepted Metzger, that Forecast had undermined everything that was done. "I thought Forecast was hurting him not helping," Rowe explained. "He was arrogant." It had only been 6 weeks since Rowe had seen Michael. "Then I went to Mexico City and he was a completely different person," she said. "You go to Puerto Rico is like going to US," Rowe told MJ. "You need to straighten up, face whatever is going on and we will get through it". This fight went on for 2-3 days, Rowe said. "You have to go somewhere to get better or it's not gonna work," Rowe told MJ. He went to some place in England, rehab. Putnam: Did he admit he had a problem? Rowe: He knew that he screwed up. He knew he was messed up. "Michael and I had a few fights and when we had them it was lulus," Rowe described. She said she flew off the handle, asked why he flew off the handle, why got angry. "I'm not about to lose my friend over this," Rowe claimed "I can't make everything better as much as I want to, so you have to do it," Rowe testified she told MJ. She cried on the stand again. "I said it will pass, you haven't done anything wrong, you just need to be strong," Rowe said. Rowe: He felt that he had disappointed me. I told him he hadn't disappointed me, I blamed it on Forecast. "Forecast was yet another doctor who didn't put him first as a patient, as a human being," Rowe expressed. Putnam: Did you confront Dr. Forecast? Rowe: They would not let me see him, the management people. "He foolish trusted a lot of people," Rowe said. "He knew I was going to go and chew his a** out." Rowe: I asked security to talk to the doctor, they said I needed to get it cleared, and was told no. (ABC7)
Rowe said she saw Jackson in Mexico City when he went there for the “Dangerous” tour. He was messy and wouldn't make eye contact. She said she tried to confront Dr. Forecast, but she wasn't allowed to see him. She didn't remember who blocked that effort. “You can’t go looking and acting like this,” Rowe said she told Jackson. She said she told him he couldn't continue on the tour. Rowe: “You need to straighten up, you need to face whatever it is that’s going on.” Jackson agreed with her and went to rehab. Rowe said she blamed Forecast for the issues. She said Jackson often couldn't see who was hurting him. “He foolishly, foolishly, trusted a lot of people,” Rowe said of Jackson. Katherine nodded her head in agreement. After rehab, Rowe said Jackson was much improved (AP)
As far as she knows MJ completed the rehab program. Putnam: Did you see after rehab? Rowe: Yes P: How did he look? R: He looked great. P: Did you talk to him about it? R: No, it didn't interest me at the time. He said he was feeling better and was ok, Rowe testified. Putnam: After that, was there ever a time you were concerned with his use of Demerol? Rowe: Not like that, no. Rowe: No, because he was fine, he was clean. At that time he was really, really busy recording HIStory album. Rowe said MJ needed a driver because he was always on the phone. She would drive him from Klein's office to the studio. There were occasions MJ would receive Demerol, she said. After the surgery the area that was done fell apart and started with the pain again. Putnam: Did he continue to receive Demerol until the time you left Klein? Rowe: He did. "He wasn't in the office an inordinate amount of time," Rowe testified. She said she saw him on set of "Ghost" and he looked great. (ABC7)
Putnam asked about MJ using Propofol for sleep. It happened only in Germany, and it was 2 days, she responded. Rowe said Prince was a baby, it was 1996, 97 during HIStory tour. "There were 2 anesthesiologists and equipment, looked like surgical suite" Putnam: So in Germany during HIStory tour, MJ was taking propofol/diprivan to sleep? Rowe: Only those two occasions. "I believe it was set up through Dr. Metzger," she said. Putnam: And no procedure was being done, just to sleep? Rowe: Yes. Putnam: Two nights in a row? Rowe: You guys haven't seen a concert of his. "There's no way he could ever do concert 2 nights in a row," Rowe testified. "His shows were so physical, usually had 1-2 nights in between" Rowe explained the German tour: Day 1 night before show -- Propofol Day 2 show Day 3 nothing Day 4 Propofol Day 5 show. Rowe said Propofol was not done in Paris and London. In Germany, MJ was in a hotel room, doctors came in and set it up. "I didn't know we were going to have a second time." She said she didn't know there was going to be a first time either. Rowe said MJ had called Metzger and said he didn't sleep. "I called Metzger to find out what we could do," Rowe described. "They had set everything up and Metzger said the doctors were coming." Rowe said she voiced her concerns to MJ and Metzger. She said it was a little drastic to do something like that and they were in another country, she didn't know the name of the medications. Rowe said Dr. Metzger talked to Michael and it wasn't Dr. Metzger's first choice. Putnam: Why diprivan not sedative, sleeping pills? Rowe: I think he tried and it didn't work. And if he couldn't sleep, he couldn't perform. "He said he was at the end of his rope and didn't know whatelse to do," Rowe recalled. P: Did he indicate he had done it before? R: No. Putnam: Did he indicate he was worried about this? Rowe: He didn't seem to be. We sat with the doctors and went over all the risks/concerns. "They said it was the same stuff we had used in the States," Rowe explained. She's familiar with Fentanyl, Diprivan, but not Propofol, never used that word. "They warned him that any anesthesia is dangerous" Rowe said. Putnam: Did you tell him you were afraid he might die? Rowe: No, I said what happens if you die. "He had so many procedures done with Hoefflin I don't think he was worried about it," Rowe said. Putnam: Did he seem worried at all? Rowe: No, he just seemed worried about not sleeping. Rowe said the doctors did a physical on MJ prior. "I was very impressed, I was very comfortable with Michael being under their care." "It was a hard 8 hours period," Rowe said about Diprivan/Propofol. "It was 8 hours and that was it." (ABC7)
Two German doctors treated Michael Jackson's insomnia with propofol 12 years before he died from an overdose of the surgical anesthetic, his former wife testified Wednesday. Dr. Allen Metzger -- Jackson's general practitioner in the United States -- arranged for the German anesthesiologists to infuse the singer with propofol in a Munich hotel in July 1997 after sedatives failed to help him sleep between concerts, Rowe testified. "I think they tried it and it hadn't worked and if he couldn't sleep, he couldn't perform," she testified. Jackson "was at the end of his rope; he didn't know what else to do." He "felt better" after eight hours of propofol-induced sleep and decided to get a second treatment after his second Munich show, she said. (CNN) Rowe said Metzger arranged for two doctors to give Jackson the anesthetic propofol in Germany in 1997 when he complained that he couldn't sleep during his "HIStory" tour. On two occasions, the doctors brought medical equipment to Jackson's hotel suite and monitored the singer while he was under the effect of the anesthetic for eight hours. The doctors warned Jackson about the dangers of using propofol, but Rowe said he disregarded the information. "He was just more worried about not sleeping," she said. Rowe said she would not allow the singer to get similar propofol treatments for sleep issues after the use in Germany. (AP)
Rowe said next day MJ warmed up with his voice coach on the phone and went to the venue, rested voice during the day, did meet and greet. "I asked next day how he was feeling. He said he felt better," Rowe remembered. Putnam: Did you remain concerned he had done this? Rowe: No, it was the one time Putnam: But then he did it again one day later? Rowe: Yes. Rowe: He said he hadn't slept after the concert, I called Dr. Metzger, I believed it was decided this is something you can't do all the time. Rowe: Dr. Stoll and his assistant did it. They did a physical, it was almost exactly the same as the first time. "They were a little more emphatically you can't do this, we are not doing this again," Rowe said. (ABC7)
Rowe recalled this was the end of the tour."I think we were going to address the issue after." "He always had a sleep disorder, but I don't remember why it had kicked in high gear like it had," Rowe said. Rowe said they were going to a sleep facility, she wasn't with him, she believes Dr. Metzger went along. Rowe said that before, MJ had gotten the procedures done and had gotten sleep. "Even with the doctors in Germany, he woke up," she said. "He was not sound asleep like when he saw Dr. Hoefflin." Rowe: In Germany, he was awaken within 1 hour after the drip had stopped. W/ Hoefflin, he was in the recovery room, with oxygen, for 5-6 hrs. "He'd come to Klein's office and sleep," Rowe said. Putnam: With Diprivan? Rowe: No just sleep. Rowe: He slept when he had the procedures at Hoefflin and he slept after Hoefflin had done the procedure. Rowe: But that was the only place that had happened that I had seen Michael have anesthesia, that was only place it happened, at Hoefflin's (ABC7)
Putnam: After second time in hotel room, were you concerned he was going to do it again? Rowe: That wasn't going to happened again. It just wasn't going to happen again. "You don't give someone Diprivan to sleep. It's not appropriate, it's not a labeled use," Rowe expressed. "He never did it when I was around. It would not have happened," Rowe said about MJ using Diprivan/Propofol again to sleep. Putnam: Did security, nanny see him being put under? Rowe: No, I'm not going to let anyone in when he's sleeping. That's rude. She said her and Grace had been in the room while MJ slept. Rowe took notes of the procedure and gave Dr. Metzger to include in his chart. "I'd go to Europe every other week to see Prince," Rowe said. "We were making Paris." (ABC7)
Rowe: After Michael and I decided to separate, Michael got "custody" of the doctors. It was more important for me that he had Metzger. Rowe: Because Metzger cared about Michael as a human being, wanted the best for him, talked to him for hours. Rowe: Michael could be strong for about 10 minutes, then reasonable and he respected Dr. Metzger very much. (ABC7)
Rowe: We were married. When I was no longer working with Dr. Klein, I felt like I had a completely different role in his life. "I couldn't go in to Dr Klein's office and look at his chart, it's illegal. I felt if he wanted me there he'd talk to me about it" Rowe said. "He needed somebody to be there for him, to not take him, to not look at him as a cash cow," Rowe expressed. (ABC7)
Rowe: I wasn't sure how Michael would be when he woke up. We'd stay in different areas of the hotel because fans would keep the baby awake. Rowe said that he told Grace if MJ didn't look ok to not let him alone with the baby.(ABC7)
"Klein at one time was a brilliant physician, and it was very sad what happened to him," Rowe testified. Rowe said they would get together at Klein's office and talk. "Everybody agreed that it was a little too much to have Diprivan to sleep." (ABC7)
Paris was 4 the last time Rowe saw Michael. That would've been in 2003. (ABC7) Putnam asked Rowe about the last time she saw Michael Jackson. She said it was in around 2003, when Paris was 4 years old. (AP)
Putnam: When it came out he died of overdose of Propofol, how did you react? Rowe: I actually called Dr Klein and said 'what did you give him, you killed him' "I thought he was responsible in some way" Rowe testified. Rowe: I didn't know what Propofol was. I still didn't know. I think it was at a deposition I was told it was the same thing (as diprivan). Putnam: Other than Germany, was there any other time MJ used Diprivan to sleep? Rowe: Not that I was aware of, no. (ABC7)
Jackson cross
Deborah Chang, attorneys for the Jacksons, did cross examination at 3:55 pm PT. (ABC7)
Chang asked how Rowe was. "I have a headache to die for, I'm tired," Rowe said. (ABC7)
At the day of the deposition, plaintiffs didn't show up. Rowe said AEG attorneys told her they didn't want to come. Rowe hung up on Mrs. Jackson's assistant when asked to talk to KJ's attorney because she said she didn't want to testify on anyone's behalf. She's here now because of defendant's subpoena, would not come to testify voluntarily. (ABC7) Rowe said she hung up on Mrs. Jackson’s assistant and only came to court because she received a subpoena. (AP)
Rowe is not the legal guardian of either Prince and Paris Jackson. Mrs. Jackson and TJ Jackson are, she said. Chang asked if prior to this year is it true she spent little time with Prince and Paris. Rowe said that was true. Rowe said she reestablished seeing daughter Paris this year. She never spoke to the kids about this lawsuit. (ABC7) Chang asked about Rowe re-establishing contact with Paris this year. Rowe said she had, but she never discussed the case with her. (AP)
Chang: Do you agree you were close friends for 20 years? Rowe: Yes, longer. "It was not like we ever hated each other," Rowe said about MJ. Chang: But communication got complicated because of divorce lawyers? Rowe: There were divorce lawyers/personal assistants that were annoying (ABC7)
Rowe said at Klein's office they did studies of collagen and Botox. She knew Dr. Klein well. Chang: Despite what you think of him now, was Dr. Klein considered a respected dermatologist? Rowe: He was, he was brilliant. (ABC7)
First time MJ went to Dr. Klein he was still in his 20s, and acne caused embarrassment, Rowe said. MJ had discoid lupus, which is a disease in the skin, Rowe said. Discoid lupus is not systemic lupus, which is all over the body. "His scarring was from the burn in the Pepsi commercial," Rowe said. MJ also had vitiligo, which causes discoloration of the skin. Chang wants to show a picture of a black male's hand with vitiligo. Defendants objected, Chang asked for sidebar. (ABC7)