Jacksons vs AEG - Day 17 – May 23 2013 – Summary
Katherine Jackson and Rebbie Jackson are in court. Katherine becomes emotional when Panish asks about Michael being pressured, leaves court during lunch and does not come back for the afternoon session.
Shawn Trell Testimony
*source info: all of the below information comes from ABC7 twitter account. As it's one single source I did not repeat ABC7 after every paragraph
Jackson redirect
Trell said when he met Michael Jackson in January of 2009, the singer didn't appear to be in pain.
"I approximate the number of tours I've been involved in to be about 100," Trell testified. Trell said AEG has done other smaller productions as promoter and producer, only on two occasions for singers (Prince and MJ). "We promoted and produced Prince's 88 tour," Trell said. Panish: Is that a yes, one time you did promote/produce a tour? Trell: Yes Panish said Prince's tour did not go well. "I wouldn't agree with that statement," Trell said. "I've never spoken to Prince, ever.
Trell said AEG never hired physicians for tours before.
Trell said he didn't know if AEG has a written contract with attorney Kathy Jorrie, who drafted Dr. Murray's contract. AEG did not deduct any payment from Jorrie for making mistakes in the contracts, Trell said.
"I think Mr. Jackson asked us to engage his (Dr. Murray) services for him and his family on the tour," Trell explained. "We weren't aware of a conflict of interest," Trell said. Panish: You, AEG Live, could've said you should hire your own doctor with your own money, right? Trell: Yes
Panish: Do you believe a threat to lose $150,000 month could exert pressure on anyone? Trell: I don't know that
As to Dr. Murray's contract, Trell said it was prepared by AEG Live attorneys and never sent to any attorney representing MJ. "I believe there were three or four drafts," Trell explained. Panish: Did Dr. Murray sign and fax back the contracts? Trell: Yes, he did.
As to mistakes in contracts, Panish said there were a lot made in several contracts. He highlighted a few of them. Panish: How many shows were in the tour? Trell: In the tour agreement, 31. Panish: But you sold tickets for 50 shows? Trell: The agreement contemplated in excess of 31, based on artist's approval. Trell said he didn't have written approval from MJ for 50 shows. "But you wanted to get fully executed contracts right sir?" Panish inquired
Trell said he never reviewed any of the drafts of Dr. Murray's contract because Jorrie was handling the negotiation. Trell explained that before AEG were to sign the final version, though, he would've reviewed everything to make sure there were no mistakes.
Panish asked if Trell knew Randy Phillips talked to Dr. Murray for 20 minutes on the phone. "I'm aware he had spoken with him, but didn't know the length of the calls," Trell said.Panish asked if MJ ever signed a release of authorization for Randy Phillips to speak with Dr. Murray. Trell said he was not aware of one. Panish asked if Trell thought it was ok for Phillips to speak with Dr. Murray alone. He said it depends on the substance of the conversation Panish: About their physical conditions? Trell: I don't know that. I think it would depend on the nature and substance of the conversation. If they are talking about generalities, Trell said he doesn't think there's need for an authorization that Panish was talking about. Panish: Are you familiar with HIPPA? Trell: I'm generally familiar with it, but don't know what the acronym means. Panish: You have no idea what the law allows what a physician can discuss or someone can ask about a patient's condition, sir? Trell: Yes
Panish: Do you know if Mr. Phillips ever threat Dr. Murray? Trell: No, I don't know that.
Panish referred to the email from Gongaware on June 14, 2009 saying AEG was the one paying Dr. Murray's salary and what's expected of him. Panish: Is it a conflict of interest to tell a doctor you are paying how he needs to treat his patient? Trell: I don't know if that would rise to a conflict of interest. There are facts and circumstances that would bear on this.
As to independent contractors, Trell said the indemnity provision is always included in the agreements. Panish: That's because it's your job to protect the financial interested of the company, rights? Trell: It's part of my responsibility, yes
Panish: Isn't it important to put everything in writing, sir? Trell: Not necessarily, I don't think you can put everything in writing
Trell said he doesn't expect the CEO of a company to know everything within the company, as Phillips wrote that they 'checked everyone out'.
Trell said the people whom AEG contracted are either known to them, to the artist or in the business.
Trell said AEG had a management agreement with Dr. Tohme, a management agreement. "It was an agreement between us and Tohme regarding the service he would render on the tour," Trell said. "It was a fee for whatever services MJ wanted him to perform according to the agreement," Trell explained. Panish asked if Dr. Tohme was an employee of AEG. Trell: He was not an employee. Panish: Is he an independent contractor? Trell: He's a party to an agreement. Panish pressed Trell for an answer, since he testified people working on the tour were either employees or independent contractors. "It's hard for me to describe, he was not an employee, and not independent contractor either," Trell.
Panish showed an email where attorney Kathy Jorrie expressed reservations about Dr. Tohme. Jorrie questioned if he was the "real McCoy", meaning the real deal, and recommended a background check to be performed. Did you perform background check on Dr. Tohme? Trell: No Trell said there was no reason to believe Dr. Tohme wasn't telling the truth when he said he represented Michael Jackson. Trell said he saw Dr. Tohme call MJ numerous times about the tour. Trell: I don't know what she meant with the reference to "real McCoy"
Email on 6/23/09 from Timm Wooley to Bob Taylor (insurance broker): Kenny Ortega has responsibility only for the show content and structure Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray are responsible for MJ rehearsal and attendance schedule. Looks like there might have been an issue in KO either not being demanding enough.
"Timm Wooley's statement is inaccurate, in my opinion," Trell said, but agreed he never spoke with Wooley about it, never saw it before. "Meaning MJ showed up whenever MJ wanted to," Trell opined.
"I testified that I was inquiring of ways that might be available to breach the gap," Trell said about looking for additional insurance.
Trell doesn't know the exact number of the tickets sold. Estimating 15K seats for each of the 50 shows, Trell said it was about 750K tickets. Trell testified the venue typically holds the money of the sold tickets. In this case, AEG was the owner of the venue, withheld the money.
Panish asked Trell if he knew Randy Phillips threatened to take away Michael's house if he didn't perform. Defendant's attorney asked for a sidebar. They claimed Panish was misrepresenting the evidence. After the sidebar, they changed subject.
Trell said he didn't know how much MJ's assets were worth. He agreed they were underinsured for the tour.
Email from Ortega to Phillips on 6/20/09 at 2a: My concern is now that we have brought the doctor in the fold and have applied tough love, now or never card, that the artist may be unable to rise to the occasion.
Panish: Was MJ pressured psychological and needed to be checked? Trell: I don't know that. This is the same email showed yesterday where Ortega said MJ was frightened that everything was going to go away. "I don't know why Kenny was referencing that, I don't know about mention of ending the tour," Trell said. Panish: Was Mr. Jackson feeling pressured? Trell: The email says he was frightened, it doesn't say he was feeling pressured. "I have no idea what he felt," Trell said. Panish: No one ever pressured him, right? Trell: That's my impression.
Trell said he doesn't think AEG was under pressure to lose $34 million. "It was Michael Jackson's obligation to us." Panish: Were you concerned? Trell: There's always a concern Panish: Have you ever lost $34 million before? Trell: No The agreement was the tour agreement, Trell said, where it contemplated it could be expanded based upon artist's approval.
Brian Panish asked Trell if to work for AEG Live a person needed to have an executed contract. "There are employees that are hired by AEG who don't have contracts; they are at will employees," Trell explained. Panish asked Trell about several people who worked for AEG but didn't have fully executed contracts. Panish: You told us every person who got paid had fully executed contract, right? Trell: That's my impressionPanish said he wants to show all the unexecuted contracts as June 25, 2009. Michael Bearden, Alfred Dunbar, Orianthis Panagaris
Email said: "Contract still under negotiation. Timm gave verbal Termination notice" Panish: Did everyone who were paid for TII tour without fully executed contracts? Trell: I don't recall
Email on 6/19/09 from John Hougdahl to Randy Phillips: My laymen's degree tells me he needs a shrink to get him mentally prepared to get on stage and then a trained to get him in physical shape... (Kobe's should be available) I have watched him deteriorated in front of my eyes over the last 8 weeks. He was able to do multiple 360 spins back in April. He'd fall on his ass if he tried it now."
John Houghdahl was the stage manager of "This Is It" tour.
Trell said Phillips never told him about this email. "This email is an indication from Houghdahl to Phillips that he feels that way."
Panish: Were you trying to stall Dr. Murray in getting a contract? Trell: Me? Panish: You and AEG Trell: Not to my knowledge
Email on 5/26/09 from Timm Wooley to Brigitte Segal: Brigitte, Any joy with an agreement for Murray to sign. He's pinging on us for payment but we can't without a contract in place. Would like to stall him with something for him to look at & mull over. Brigitte dealt with the housing in London.
"No, we did not have sickness insurance coverage that day," Trell said. "The insurance would be one way MJ's company would repay us," Trell explained. Panish said there's a lawsuit pending regarding the insurance. AEG is no longer a party in the insurance last, Panish said. Trell: We were dismissed from the case because we don't have a financial interest.
Panish: Do you have anything in writing authorizing you to extend the tour to 50 shows? Trell: Yes, we have the verbal approval
Panish showed Trell the contract with MJ and the provisions showed any change needed to be in writing.Panish: Do you have anything in writing from Mr. Jackson for costs in excess of $7.5 million? Trell: No
On April 14, 2009, Michael Jackson wrote a "Notice of Revocation of a Power of Attorney" that Tohme was no longer representing him. As of May 5, 2009, Trell was made aware of MJ's request regarding Dr. Tohme, Panish said.
"We would not pay on an agreement until there was a fully executed agreement," Trell said. Tohme signed a letter on 6/28/09 on behalf of MJ's company approving the expenses of $34 million to go to Jackson's estate.
Panish: Do you deny telling Mr. Taylor before MJ died that AEG employed Dr. Murray at the request of MJ? Trell: I don't recall
AEG recross
Jessica Bina did re-cross of Trell, who said Dr. Murray's agreement required medical licenses both here in the US and in the UK. He also needed proof of insurance, Trell said. If Dr. Murray didn't provide them, there were grounds for termination of services. Bina: Did AEG Live ever provided him with medical equipments? Trell: No. Two reasons: the agreement never went into the effect. And had it come to existence, Trell said, the equipment would've been provided in London. Equipment requested: CPR machine, saline, catheters, needles, gurney and other mutually approved medical equipment necessary 4 the Services
Trell said Bearden's contract was eventually fully executed. It was under negotiation when MJ died. No contract needed MJ's consent and signature, except for Dr. Murray, Trell testified.
Bina: Does the fact that you are negotiating means you have a contract? Trell: No, it's just that, negotiation. Bina: Does the agreement have to be in writing to exist? Trell: Yes, of course
Bina: When did you have an agreement with MJ? Trell: As of January 28, 2009
Trell said he didn't know if MJ and Dr. Murray talked about the contract. He said he didn't know whether MJ was going to sign it.
Trell said there were dozens and dozens, North of 50 contracts done in "This Is It" tour. Contract: Artistsco hereby per-approves thirty one shows or such greater number as agreed by artistco and promoter.Trell said there was an ongoing discussion about the expenses incurred to mount the show; impractical to get everyone's signature.
As to the expense report sent to the estate and approved by Dr. Tohme, Trell said Frank DiLeo also signed it.
Bina showed a document from DiLeo saying he was MJ's manager from March 2009 until his death. "For instance, MJ asked AEG Live to retain services of Dr. Murray as his personal physician," DiLeo letter said. Trell said DiLeo was acting in some management capacity for MJ.
Bina: Did anyone ever tell you MJ had not approved the costs for TII tour? Trell: No
As to Dr, Murray, Trell said he didn't feel there was a conflict of interest, the interest of all three parties involved were the same. "There were no inconsistencies in the agenda," Trell said. "Second, even if the agreement was in place, effectively MJ was hiring Dr. Murray, just using our money," Trell said.
"We had entered into a multi-faced, multi-year agreement with MJ and wanted nothing but for it to be successful," Trell testified. "The Michael Jackson company, in first instance, would be responsible to pay the money. Then MJ had guaranteed it," Trell testified. Trell said that if MJ had any royalties, AEG would have rights on it to recoup the money, but couldn't take interest in his music catalogue.
Bina played deposition from Trell were he said he didn't supervise people who performed personal services, like hair and make-up artists. His job, Trell explained, was to supervise the what-you-see-on-stage.
Bina talked about Hougdahl's email. She asked if it mentioned drug abuse, medication, anesthesia. Trell said no. The email, Trell said, had to do with MJ being mentally prepared and about a trainer to get him in shape.
Trell said HIPPA law is an intent to protect a patient. He doesn't have any more knowledge about it. Bina: Did Mr. Phillips say he discussed treatment of Mr. Jackson with Dr. Murray? Trell: No, not at all
Bina: Did Mr. Jackson to your knowledge died from being too skinny? Trell: No
Bina: Did Mr. Jackson died from being sick? Trell: No
Trell said AEG Live never supplied any equipment or paid for any drugs given to MJ.
Bina: What was MJ's cause if death? Trell: I believe it was acute Propofol intoxication, given by Dr. Murray in MJ's bedroom.
Jackson redirect
Panish, in re-re-cross: Did you know AEG paid Frank Dileo $5 million after MJ died? Trell: No
"I don't recall me being involved in approving such payment," Trell testified. Panish showed emails regarding DiLeo's revised payment
10/13/09 from Shawn Trell to Rick Webking: Approved $5 MM bucket. $50k payment to Frank would have to do with motion picture, Trell said. It would be taken out of the 5 million dollar bucket. "That does not mean Frank was paid $5 million," Trell said, explaining DiLeo was paid $50,000 but he didn't know what for.
Regarding the approval of TII tour expenses: Panish: You had no signature before Mr. Jackson was dead? Trell: Correct . Panish: You took the position, to satisfy the contract, that DiLeo and Tohme could sign after MJ was dead, yes or no? Trell: Yes Trell said Dr. Murray's expenses were included in the expenses DiLeo and Tohme approved.
"I'm not aware of any payments to Dr. Tohme, and only aware of $50,000 to Mr. DiLeo for something related to the movie," Trell said.
"Of course Michale Jackson was necessary for a MJ tour," Trell explained. "It's his show, it's MJ show, he's the most important person."
Trell said he doesn't recall anybody else, other than Dr. Murray, at the rate of $150,000.
Panish: Did Randy Phillips ever call your doctor to see how you're doing? Trell: No
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Judge ended the session and excused Shawn Trell, subject to recall if needed. Paul Gongaware takes the stand on Tuesday morning. There will be no trial tomorrow. It was agreed upon in the beginning that court would be dark tomorrow due to Memorial Day holiday.