Jacksons vs AEG - Day 18 – May 28 2013 – Summary
Katherine, Janet, Rebbie and Randy Jackson are in court. Only one the siblings were allowed in the courtroom as they are potential witnesses. Janet Jackson accompanied Katherine during morning session while Rebbie was with her during the afternoon session.
Paul Gongaware Testimony
Jackson direct
Paul Gongaware is one of the defendants in the case. He's an adverse witness called by the plaintiffs. Gongaware is Co-CEO of Concerts West, part of AEG Live. Gongaware has toured with Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin and is currently on your with The Rolling Stones. He worked for Jerry Weintraub in 80s (ABC7)
He produced Prince's tour in 2004. He has not promoted/produced tours since. Gongaware has not talked to Prince after the tour. (ABC7)
Gongaware was a CPA licensed in NY and Washington. He said he believes he's still licensed but hasn't checked status since there's no need (ABC7)
Gongaware testified that landing Jackson, whom he felt was the biggest artist of his era, was huge for AEG. In a 2008 email to AEG Live President and Chief Executive Randy Phillips, Gongaware described how the company should approach Jackson and his manager about a possible comeback tour. “We need to start at the fundamentals. How we do it. The difference between [Live Nation] and us is huge. We are artist-based, they are Wall Street-driven,” Gongaware wrote. "We are smart people. We are completely honest and transparent with everything we do. That’s how [founder] Phil [Anschutz] wants it.(LATimes)
Gongaware said he worked on Elvis Presley tour. Panish asked if Elvis died of drug overdose, and Gongaware said yes. Gongaware replied to a condolences' email on July 5, 2009: "I was working on the Elvis tour when he died, so I kind of knew what to expect." (ABC7) "I was working on the Elvis tour when he died so I kind of knew what to expect," Gongaware wrote in an e-mail to a friend two weeks after Jackson died. "Still quite a shock." (CNN)
“So you knew what to expect when Michael Jackson passed away, is that right, sir?” Brian Panish asked.
“I kind of knew what was going to happen, yes,” Gongaware answered.(LATimes)
Despite working as a tour promoter for 37 years -- including for Led Zeppelin, the Grateful Dead and many others -- Gongaware testified that the only artist he ever knew that was using drug on tour was Rick James. (CNN). Gongaware testified he worked with another artist who had drug problems: Rick James. (ABC7)
Panish skipped around, asked about name Concerts West, assets. About working for Jackson 5, Gongaware said had no interaction w/ MJGongaware worked on MJ's Dangerous tour in 92-93. Panish said MJ made $100 million and donated it to charity. Gongaware said he didn't know. (ABC7)
When Gongaware met Jackson was with Colonel Parker (Elvis' manager) in Las Vegas. MJ wanted to meet the Colonel. (ABC7)
Gongaware explained the difference between being tour manager and managing the tour. He talked about MJ's History tour, various legs, job (ABC7)
Panish: You knew that MJ had been to rehab during the dangerous tour? Gongaware: Yes, based on the statement he made after the tour. Gongaware said he never knew MJ was involved with drugs until after the end of the Dangerous tour. Gongaware told LAPD he was aware of Jackson's previous use of pills/painkillers but did not want to get involved. (ABC7) Gongaware had known for years that Michael Jackson was taking painkillers but wasn’t aware he was abusing them until MJ abruptly canceled his Dangerous world tour in the early 1990s to enter rehab. Gongaware testified that although he was the manager of the Dangerous tour and knew Jackson was being given painkillers, he didn’t know how serious the problem was until the singer made a public announcement during the tour about his decision to check into rehab. (LAtimes) Gongaware testified that he was a logistics manager on Michael’s “Dangerous” tour in 1993 but never knew about the King of Pop’s addiction to pain meds until the iconic entertainer publicly announced his need for rehab. Gongaware said he knew of “two occasions” when Michael used painkillers between shows, but he claimed he didn’t grasp the scope of the singer’s sickness until the taped 1993 announcement.“I would dispute knowing that he had a problem,” Gongaware said. “I wasn’t aware that there were problems.” (NYDailyNews)
Gongaware said he knew a doctor was medicating Jackson during the Dangerous tour but did not find out why the tour was eventually cut short.
“Didn’t have time,” Gongaware said. “I was just dealing with what was in front of me.” (LATimes)
Panish said Dr. Finkelstein testified under oath that Gongaware knew MJ had problems w/ painkillers before the end of Dangerous tour ended. Panish: Do you dispute that? (Finkelstein testimony) Gongaware: I knew that he had pain. (ABC7)
Gongaware said Dr. Finkelstein is his doctor and friend and that they talk off and on, but he doesn't know specifics of the doctor's deposition. Dr. Finkelstein said he gave MJ painkillers after concert in Bangkok after Michael had scalp surgery. In Gongaware's video deposition: Did you ever ask Dr. Finkelstein if he treated MJ during the Dangerous tour? He wouldn't take about that stuff. Another part of Gongaware's video depo: He said yes, he occasionally treated Michael Jackson on the Dangerous tour. (ABC7)
Panish: Were you always honest with MJ? Gongaware: I believe I was. Panish: Did you throw around numbers to trick Michael Jackson? Gongaware: I didn't try to trick Michael (ABC7)
Panish elicited contradictory testimony asking over and over about Gongaware's memory, how long he spent with lawyers to discuss testimony. (ABC7)
On the Bad Tour MJ sold out 10 stadiums at 75,000 tickets per night.
Panish: That's a pretty big number?
Gongaware: Huge (ABC7)
Panish: In 2 hours, how many tickets sold?
Gongaware: In initial presale we sold 31 shows
Panish: The fastest you had ever seen?
Gongaware: Yes (ABC7)
"No one knows how many shows we can get with Mikey," said Gongaware. Panish asked about name "Mikey" - he said he used it occasionally (ABC7)
Email on 2/27/09 from Gongaware to Phillips: We are holding all of the risk, if MJ won't t approve it we go without his approval.We let Mikey know just what it will cost him in terms of him making money, and the we go with or without him in London. We cannot be forced into stopping this, which MJ will try to do because he is lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate wants. (ABC7) Explaining the email, Gongaware testified that Jackson "really didn’t like to rehearse. He didn’t like to do these kinds of things." (LATimes) Gongaware said his use of “Mikey” was affectionate, not disparaging, and that the “lazy” crack amounted to a “poor choice of words” but one that accurately reflected how Michael “really didn’t like to rehearse” or “do these kinds of things.” (NYDailyNews)
"People were aware at this point there would be a press conference. MJ wouldn't show up at the conference, it'd cost money," Gongaware said. "It wasn't much risk at all, we hadn't spent money," Gongaware said about that point of the tour. This was prior to news conference. (ABC7)
Gongaware said the situation in London, where they constantly referred to MJ as "***** *****", it would impact marketability to sell tickets (ABC7)
"He doesn't want to do this kind of things, but it was important to show MJ to the world if he wanted to do a MJ show," Gongaware explained. (ABC7)
Jurors were shown several e-mails from Gongaware that Jackson lawyers suggested were evidence that AEG Live deliberately misled Jackson about how much money he would make from his comeback concerts and how many days he would have to rest between shows. Gongaware wrote to his boss, AEG Live President Randy Phillips, that they should present gross ticket sales numbers to Jackson, not the percentage of the net profits, during contract talks. "Maybe gross is a better number to throw around if we use numbers with Mikey listening," his e-mail said. (CNN)
Panish talked about an email Gongaware sent to his secretary asking her to change the color on MJ's calendar.
Email: "don't want the shows to stand out do much when MJ looks at it. Figure out so it looks like he's not working so much. Panish: Did you wanted to change the color of the schedule to show MJ would not be working so hard? Gongaware: Yes. Panish: Were you trying to fool him? Gongaware: Nah, I wasn't trying to fool him, I wanted to present it in the best possible light. Gongaware said it would be obvious when MJ would be working and not and he wasn't trying to trick him. (ABC7) "Figure it out so it looks like he's not working so much." Gongaware email request to alter MJ's schedule. "I wasn't trying to fool him. I wanted to present it in the best possible light." Gongaware on altering look of MJ's schedule (LATimes)
He sent an e-mail to his assistant in March 2009 suggesting that she design a concert calendar for Jackson using light tan colors for show dates, while drawing attention to his rest days. "I don't want the shows to stand out so much when MJ looks at it. Less contrast between work and off. Maybe off days in a contrasting soft color. Put 'OFF' in each off day after July 8, as well. Figure it out so it looks like he's not working so much."Under questioning Tuesday, Gongaware said he "wasn't trying to fool him. I wanted to present it in the best possible light." (CNN)
Email on 3/25/09 from Phillips to Gongaware: "We need to pull the plug now. I will explain."
Panish: Mr. Phillips wanted to pull the plug on the show, right sir? Gongaware: I think he was referring to pull the plug on Karen Faye. "We never talked about pulling the plug on MJ tour. Not that I recall," Gongaware testified. "Kenny wanted the pull because the way she (Faye) handled the situations," Gongaware explained. "She tried to control access to MJ and Kenny didn't like that," Gongaware said. Karen Faye expressed strong opinion that the tour as dangerous and impractical for MJ. Panish asked about a chain of emails where Gongaware said the pulling the plug refers to Ms. Faye. "I believe he was," Gongaware repeated. Email on 3/25/09 from Gongaware to Phillips: It's her (Faye) strong opinion this is dangerous/impractical w/ MJ's health/ability to perform. Response from Gongaware to Phillips: Not sure what to send back... Randy responded: "We need to pull the plug now. I will explain.".Gongaware said in depo he had no idea what Phillips meant. He said he didn't recall Phillips saying they needed to pull the plug on the tour (ABC7)
In another March 25, 2009, email, Ortega wrote Gongaware that it was Faye's "strong opinion that this is dangerous and impractical with consideration to MJ's health and ability to perform.". The email was sent on March 25, 2009, and was from Randy Phillips to Paul Gongaware. Gongaware denied that the email was a reference to calling off Jackson’s "This Is It" concerts in London but instead was pointed at "pulling the plug on Karen Faye. "We never talked about pulling the plug on the Michael Jackson tour, not that I recall.” said Gongaware. "I think Kenny wanted to pull the plug on her because of the way she handled the situation," Gongaware testified about Faye. "She tried to control access to Michael Jackson, and Kenny didn’t like that.” (LATimes)
"I thought he was in good shape at the press conference, I was there," Gongaware said at the deposition. Gongaware was at O2 arena and Phillips was with MJ. "MJ was late, Randy was saying I'm trying to get him going, I'm trying to get him going". Panish: Did Randy tell you MJ was drunk and despondent? Gongaware: No, not drunk and despondent. Just said he was having hard time getting him going. (ABC7)
As to Dr. Conrad Murray, Gongaware said there was 1 rehearsal he said hello to him. "It was basically a hello, on the floor at the Forum.". "Mikey asked me to retain him for Michael Jackson," Gongaware said about Dr. Murray. "I never hired him." (ABC7)
Panish: Is Mr. Phillips a good friend of your? Gongaware: I work with him. Panish played interview of Phillips to SkyTV after MJ died: The guy is willing 2 leave his practice for large sum of money, so we hired him (ABC7)
"I was told Michael wanted him as his doctor for the show," Gongaware said. Gongaware said MJ did not have any illness that he knew of. Gongaware: He had taken a physical, he passed the physical and from what I understand there was nothing wrong w/ him. Maybe some hay fever. Panish: Do you know what his blood test showed? Gongaware: It showed it was good?! Gongaware said he received email from Bob Taylor that everything was fine and that MJ had passed the physical. Gongaware said he never saw the results of the tests and doesn't know who saw them. (ABC7)
Panish: First you said how much did you want? (to Dr. Murray) Gongaware: Yes Panish: He said he wanted $5 million, right?. Gongaware: That's what he said. He said he had four clinics he would have to close, he would have to lay people off. Gongaware said Dr. Murray had been MJ's personal doctor for the past 3 years. He said he did not know how many times MJ had seen the doctor. "MJ insisted on him, recommended him, and that was good enough for me, it was not for me to tell MJ who his doctor should be" Gongaware said. When Panish asked if MJ would get anything he wanted, Gongaware said he tried to make sure he (MJ) had what he needed to do his job. Gongaware said he could've told MJ to hire the doctor himself. "He wanted a doctor and I wanted him to be healthy for this tour". Dr. Murray said he wanted more money, but Gongaware testified he told him the offer came directly from the artist and Dr. Murray accepted it. "I think he was willing to accept anything that MJ offered," Gongaware opined. (ABC7)
Gongaware addressed the topic of Dr. Murray in his testimony Tuesday by saying he believed AEG had no choice but to work with the Vegas cardiologist. “In this case, Dr. Murray was recommended by the artist. In fact, the artist insisted,” he said. (NYDailynews)
Gongaware acknowledged reluctantly that he negotiated a deal for the doctor that the pop star had chosen to accompany him. But AEG Gongaware testified his only role in the matter was negotiating the price of Dr. Conrad Murray's services in compliance with what Jackson asked him to do. Gongaware said that neither he nor anyone at the AEG investigated Murray's background or credentials. (AP)
"The fact that he had been Michael Jackson's personal physician for three years was good enough for me," Gongaware said. (AP)
Asked if he knew that Murray was in financial difficulties when he took the job as tour doctor, Gongaware answered no.He said that Murray initially asked for $5 million to travel to London with Jackson and tend to him during the tour. "I just told him it wasn't going to happen," he said, recalling that Jackson then suggested offering him $150,000 a month. "Michael Jackson insisted on it and recommended him and it was not for me to tell him no," said Gongaware. "I wanted to provide what was necessary for him to do his job...He wanted a doctor and I wanted him to be healthy." Even after the offer of $150,000, Murray wasn't satisfied. "He started saying he wanted more and I said, 'The offer is coming directly from the artist," Gongaware said. Minutes later, he said Murray accepted. "Did that seem desperate to you?" asked Panish."No," said Gongaware. "He just accepted Michael's offer." (AP)
Gongaware said he spoke on the phone twice with Murray. The first time, the doctor requested $5 million to join the “This Is It” tour as Jackson’s physician. The second time, Murray agreed to a salary of $150,000 a month, which was a figure suggested by Jackson.
“He started in saying that he wanted more and I said that offer came directly from the artist and he immediately accepted,” Gongaware said of their second phone conversation. He added: “It wasn’t a done deal. We agreed on what the compensation would be, but there was still a lot of open issues that had to be resolved.” (LATimes)
"We agreed on what the compensation was going to be, but there were a lot of issues to be resolved," Gongaware said. Gongaware said he recalled meeting with Dr. Murray where he was told the doctor was going to take care of the medical licensing in London. Gongaware and Timm Wooley are longtime friends. They are currently working on The Stones tour. Gongaware said he negotiated the price for Dr. Murray, but didn't negotiate the contract. Gongaware explained that he didn't do the negotiation, he would normally refer that to Wooley. (ABC7)
Panish showed video deposition of Gongaware and a declaration he signed about a month before giving the deposition. They contradict themselves. (ABC7) At first, Gongaware insisted he did no negotiating with Murray, but, confronted with emails and his previous testimony, he changed his position and said, "The only thing I did with Dr. Murray was negotiate a price." (AP)
Dr. Finkelstein and Gongaware have been friends for 35-plus years. Gongaware said he never offered Dr. Finkelstein the job of being MJ's doctor and said the doctor would be mistaken if he testified otherwise. Gongaware told the jury he called Dr. Finkelstein to ask what a fair price for a tour doctor would be. Doc told him it was $10,000/week. As to Dr. Finkelstein wanting to be the tour doctor, Gongaware said he didn't recall specifically, but knew he wanted it."After his death we may have talked, but I don't recall specifics," Gongaware said. Gongaware said he sees Dr. Finkelstein a few times a year, but MJ's subject never came up. Panish asked Gongaware if Dr. Finkelstein wanted to know if MJ was clean and using drugs. Gongaware said he didn't recall the conversation . (ABC7)
Panish: You were involved in terminating one of the nannies who took care of MJ's kids? Gongaware: Yes. Gongaware told nanny Grace Rwamba that her serviced would not be needed anymore because AEG was cutting down on MJ's expenses. (ABC7)
"I never read the contract, I was there when Michael signed it, but didn't see what was in it," Gongaware said. "Doctor Murray was 100% Michael's cost," Gongaware said. Based on the contract, Gongaware said 95% of the production expenses were MJ's responsibility, 5% AEG. Panish: Who decided there was a need for a written contract with Dr. Murray? Gongaware: I don't know (ABC7)
Gongaware said that if tour went forward, Dr. Murray would've made $1.5 million for 10 months. Ortega would've made almost that. "I didn't do anything to check his background. He was MJ's doctor and that as good enough for me," Gongaware testified. (ABC7)
Gongaware said although AEG never did a background check on Murray, in his view they had “checked out” the doctor according to their standard practices. “When we check out someone, we either rely on if we know the person or if they’re known in the industry or if they’re recommended by the artist,” he said. “And in this case, Dr. Murray was recommended by the artist — in fact, the artist insisted.” The Jackson family’s attorney pressed Gongaware. “You did nothing to verify anything about Dr. Murray, isn’t that true, sir?” Brian Panish asked.“Well, Michael Jackson insisted on him, recommended him and that was good enough for me,” Gongaware replied. “It’s not up to me to tell Michael Jackson who his doctor should be.” (LATimes)
Panish asked: “You could have told Dr. Murray at any time that his services were no longer needed, couldn’t you?” “No,” Gongaware replied. Panish then pointed out that the AEG executive had fired Jackson’s nanny after being asked to do so by the singer’s aide. (LATimes)
Panish asked Gongaware if he approved budgets for April-July including Dr. Murray as production expense. He said he didn't know which budgets he approved. "It's my job to get that show on the road," Gongaware said. Gongaware said he had to know how much the production had spent on any given time, but didn't have time to read the budget. Panish: Do you think you're good at your job, sir? Gongaware: Yes Panish: Very good? Gongaware: I think so (ABC7) Gongaware testified that he didn’t pay attention to the tour budgets that he approved, even though he was the tourmanager.Paul Gongaware said he didn’t read through the budgets, instead trusting that the tour accountant for Jackson’s planned comeback concert series “knew what he was talking about.” Gongaware testified that Dr. Conrad Murray’s salary, although included in the company’s budget for several months, wasn’t something he saw as an actual payment that would be made.“If there’s a potential for cost we put it in our budget so there are no surprises later,” he said. (LATimes)
Gongaware often pleaded poor memory of events. He said he may have met with Jackson as many as 10 times, but could remember only two of the meetings and only one when Murray was present.(AP)
Gongaware said he doesn't remember how many meetings he attended at Carolwood house. He didn't recall a meeting where a vase was broken. "There was a meeting where he signed the contract," Gongaware recalled, saying there were more but he doesn't remember specifics. At the meeting in early June, Gongaware he was present along with Kenny, Randy, Frank DiLeo, Dr. Murray and Michael. "The meeting was about making sure MJ and Dr. Murray had everything they needed to care for Michael," Gongaware explained. "Yes, we did talk about health-related issues," Gongaware said." It was more a general meeting about what Dr. Murray would need." As to the June meeting, Gongaware said Michael Jackson was a little off. "He was just coming back from visiting Dr. Klein," Gongaware said. "I believe he was under the influence of something," Gongaware said. (ABC7) He remembered a meeting at which Jackson arrived late from a doctor's appointment and had slurred speech. "He was a bit off," he said, "that was the only time I saw him like that." (AP) Meeting was about Michael and what he needed for the tour. "Health issues were discussed at the meeting and Dr. Murray was there," Gongaware admitted. Gongaware told the police the topic of the meeting was Jackson's overall health, i.e., diet, stamina and his weight. (ABC7)
Gongaware said he attended a meeting at Jackson’s Holmby Hills home in June 2009 with other AEG executives; Frank Dileo, Jackson’s manager; and Murray. Gongaware said the hour long meeting was not about Jackson missing rehearsals, but about “whether Dr. Murray and Michael had everything they needed to take care of Michael’s health.”.“The topic of the meeting was Jackson’s overall health, i.e., diet, stamina and his weight,” the document read. “Jackson had missed a rehearsal and was thought to be dancing at home. However they discovered he was only watching video. Doctor Murray was receptive to their concerns and indicated he would take care of the situation.” (LATimes)