Jacksons vs AEG - Day 19 – May 29 2013 – Summary
Katherine and Rebbie Jackson are at court.
Paul Gongaware Testimony
Jackson direct
"My understanding Michael Jackson is a party (to the contract)," Gongaware said about Dr. Murray's contract. He said he never saw it, though.(ABC7) Gongaware told jury he’s never looked at Conrad Murray’s contract to serve as Michael Jackson’s tour doctor. (AP)
Panish: Why did AEG have to enter into a contract with Dr. Murray? Gongaware: I don't know. About AEG terminating Dr. Murray, Gongaware said he didn't believe they could do it, because he was Michael's doctor. Gongaware said it was fair to say he didn't know why AEG would enter into a contract with a doctor for Michael Jackson. Panish asked Gongaware if MJ negotiated the price/contract with Dr. Murray. "I believe he did through me, he instructed me what to offer" (ABC7)
Gongaware said he didn't know for sure whether Karen Faye was an independent contractor or not. (ABC7)
"Dr. Murray would've been 100% charged to Michael Jackson," Gongaware testified. (ABC7)
Gongaware said he didn't know what the $300k budgeted for medical management was for. (ABC7)
Panish tried 'impeaching' Gongaware, which is the process of calling into question the credibility of an individual who's testifying. Yesterday and today the plaintiffs' attorney would ask a question then play parts of the deposition to catch Gongaware in contradiction. (ABC7)
At one point, a portion of Gongaware’s deposition was played in which he discussed a meeting at Michael Jackson’s house with Conrad Murray. At depo, Paul Gongaware said the meeting “was about Dr. Murray and engaging him.” Gongaware later changed testimony to state “him” meant MJ. That change was read to the jury, leading attorney Brian Panish to question Gongaware about what he meant by word “engage.” “Here I think we were talking about making sure Michael Jackson was engaged and focused,” Gongaware said. (AP) Gongaware told the jury he was concerned in getting MJ involved and focused, engaged mentally. "I believe that was Kenny's concern, that he wanted him to be focus," Gongaware explained. MJ had gone before without rehearsing, Gongaware recalled. "When he got to London, MJ was going to be sensational." (ABC7) Gongaware said he thought at the meeting they discussed Jackson’s nutrition, not his health (i.e. sleep issues.) (AP)
Gongaware said Dr. Murray didn't discuss with him MJ's sleeping problems. In his deposition, Gongaware said he didn't remember. Panish asked Gongaware what made him remind that Dr. Murray didn't talk to him about MJ's sleeping problems; example of impeaching witness. (ABC7)
Panish asked Gongaware about another meeting at Jackson’s house in which the singer showed up late after a visit to Dr. Arnold Klein. “I didn't know what he was under the influence of, but he was a little bit off,” Gongaware said of the meeting. (AP) "I don't know way he was on, he was a little off," Gongaware said, adding that he didn't know what kind of drugs Dr. Klein was giving MJ. (ABC7)
Panish then asked Gongaware whether he was involved in getting Jackson a nutritionist. Lots of back-and-forth on this issue. Panish showed emails in which Gongaware emailed others at AEG telling them Jackson needed a nutritionist and physical therapist. “I was trying to find a nutritionist, but I wasn’t involved in his nutrition,” Gongaware said. (AP)
Obviously I was looking for a nutritionist for him, but I wasn't involved in his nutrition," Gongaware said. Panish played Gongaware's deposition where he said he was not involved in finding a nutritional person. Gongaware explained he believes nutritional person and nutritionist were not necessarily the same. (ABC7)
On June 15, 2009, Gongaware sent and emai to Ortega in response to request for nutritionist and physical therapist for MJ. Email: We're on it. AEG owns major sports teams in this market so we think we can find the right people quickly. Kenny responded: Super.Not a minute too soon. Let's turn this guy around! (ABC7)
Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish then asked Gongaware about a friend of AEG CEO Randy Phillips who was going to work with Jackson. Gongaware said he didn’t know whether this friend of Phillips was a nutrition specialist. He told Panish he’d have to ask Randy Phillips. (AP) Gongaware testified he remembers someone named David Loughner working with MJ. Panish pointed out Laughner is Randy Phillips' friend. "I don't know if he was a nutritionist, it was someone in charge of making MJ eat," Gongaware explained. Gongaware: He's a guy who's dealt with artists quite a bit Panish: Artists in trouble? Gongaware: Artists in general. Gongaware said he doesn't know what Laughner did, but he's seen him working with JLo andEnrique Iglesias. (ABC7)
Gongaware didn't know why MJ would need a nutritionist when he had a doctor hired. "Kenny asked for it," Gongaware explained. Gongaware said he told Dr. Murray he wanted him to have everything he needed. He said Michael Jackson had always been thin. (ABC7)
Gongaware said he didn't attend rehearsals frequently. "I was at the rehearsal facility at all the times but I wasn't in the arena much.". "We were always concerned about MJ's health and well being," Gongaware explained, saying he was responding to Kenny Ortega's requests. Gongaware said Kenny Ortega was responsible for keeping an eye on everything, including MJ and his health. (ABC7) AEG exec Paul Gongaware was then asked whether there was anyone responsible for handling AEG’s interests at rehearsals. Gongaware responded yes, that was Kenny Ortega. (AP)
Panish: Do you think Ortega was overreacting? Gongaware: Perhaps. I knew that when house lights went up, he was going to be there
Panish: You think Ortega was overreacting when raised concerns about MJ's health? Gongaware: I think I wasn't concerned as he was (ABC7)
"I was never concerned about Michael Jackson. I knew when the houselights went off, he would be there and on." (LATimes)
Panish asked Gongaware whether he thought Ortega was overreacting about Jackson’s health? “Perhaps,” Gongaware replied. “I knew when the house lights went out, he was going to be out there and on,” Gongaware said of Jackson. On whether Kenny Ortega was overreacting about Jackson’s health, Gongaware also said: “I wasn’t concerned as he was.” (AP)
Talking about the email Gongaware wrote saying he wanted to remind him (Dr. Murray) that it's AEG, not MJ, who's paying his salary. In his deposition, Gongaware said he didn't know what he meant to say in the email. Gongaware testified he spent some of the time himself looking at this email, putting it in context with the rest of the material he had. Panish: After meeting with your lawyers and talking about an hour or two about this email, did you refresh your memory what you meant? "I did come to conclusions a lot on my own, then I discussed it with my attorneys," Gongaware explained. Gongaware: After you go through you remember the facts Panish: You didn't have psychotherapy to refresh your recollection? G: No. "I still don't recall writing it," Gongaware said, "I don't recall writing it, but I admit I wrote it."(ABC7)
Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish asked him whether he’d met with AEG’s attorneys to refresh his memory. “It’s always been there,” Paul Gongaware said about whether his memory was refreshed by his lawyers. (AP)
Panish on Wednesday played for jurors a section of Gongaware's deposition, recorded in December, in which Jackson lawyer Kevin Boyle questioned him about what he meant when he wrote to Ortega, "We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ, who is paying his salary."
Boyle: "Based on the assumptions that AEG is your company and MJ is Michael Jackson, do you have an understanding of what that means?"
Gongaware: "No, I don't understand it, because we weren't paying his salary."
Boyle: "So why would you write that?"
Gongaware: "I have no idea."
Boyle: "Now, let's go on to the next sentence. When you say 'his salary,' who are you talking about?"
Gongaware: "I don't know."
Boyle: "Oh, but how do you know you weren't paying his salary if you don't know who we're talking about?"
Gongaware: "I don't remember this e-mail."
Boyle: "Didn't you just testify that 'we weren't paying his salary'?"
Gongaware: "AEG?"
Boyle: "Yes. No. You just testified 'we weren't paying his salary.' You just testified to that a few seconds ago, right?"
Gongaware: "I guess."
Boyle: "Well, whose salary were you referring to? Dr. Murray?"
Gongaware: "Yes."
After Gongaware began recalling in court Wednesday what he meant in the e-mail, Panish suggested it may be a case of "repressed memories" where "someone doesn't remember something for three or four years."
"You didn't have any psychotherapy to remember what you wrote here?" Panish asked. "You didn't like get put to sleep? (Judge Yvette Palazuelos injected: "Hypnotized?") to see if you remembered this?
"No," Gongaware answered. (CNN)
Panish went through every word of the email, which was to Kenny Ortega and Frank DiLeo. Panish: You're referring to Dr. Murray and what's expected of Dr. Murray, right? Gongaware: Yes"We did talk about Dr. Murray's salary, but a deal was never consummated," Gongaware said. "His responsibility was to take care of his patient," Gongaware said about Dr. Murray. Panish asked if he thought Dr. Murray knew what his responsibility was, so the need to remind him what's expected of him? "This thing was shorthand between me, Kenny and Frank," Gongaware explained. He said he should've been more careful choosing his words. He claimed he was referring to Kenny's email re nutritionist, physical therapist. "I certainly feel Dr. Murray should be competent to do that (be a nutritionist). He's a doctor!" Gongaware testified. Panish asked why Gongaware thought they needed a nutritionist when they had a doctor hired. "Kenny asked for one," he responded. (ABC7)
"If MJ were signed the contract and if MJ would've instructed us to pay him, we would've pay him," Gongaware said about Dr. Murray. (ABC7)
"I was writing in shorthand," Gongaware explained the email. Here's the email: Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-face meeting with the doctor, hopefully Monday. We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ, who's paying his salary. We want him to understand what's expected of him. He's been dodging Frank so far. (ABC7)
“Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-face meeting with the doctor, hopefully Monday," AEG Live co-CEO Paul Gongaware wrote on June 14, 2009, 11 days before Murray administered a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol to the singer. "We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ who is paying his salary. We want him to understand what is expected of him." Confronted with the email as he sat on the witness stand Wednesday, Gongaware said he didn't recall writing it. “I don’t understand it because we weren’t paying his salary," Gongaware said. “So why were you writing it?" asked Brian Panish, the Jackson family's attorney. "I have no idea," Gongaware replied. The AEG executive later said the email was "shorthand" between him, tour director Kenny Ortega and Jackson's manager Frank Dileo. “I was going through hundreds of emails a day. If I knew lawyers four years later were picking everything apart, I may have been more careful choosing my words,” Gongaware testified. (LATimes)
"Michael didn't like to rehearse, it didn't surprise me," Gongaware expressed, saying it was known that MJ didn't go to rehearsals.(ABC7) He said Jackson didn't like to rehearse, that previously Jackson didn't rehearse before the "HIStory" tour either. But when the lights went up, Jackson was "on," he stated. (KABC)
In May, Gongaware sent an email to Tim Leiweke's secretary, Carla Garcia, wrote that he couldn't tell her which day the "This Is It" concerts would open in London because Jackson hadn't shown up to rehearsal (LATimes) asking her to pray for him, since everything was a nightmare. Email on 5/5/09 from Gongaware to Carla Garcia: Pray for me. This is a nightmare. Not coincidentally, I have them now every night. Cold sweats too. Life used to be so much fun... (ABC7) It was not an admission that he was concerned about Jackson's ability to do the show, he said. "It was just playing around, joking," with AEG President Tim Leiweke's assistant, Carla Garcia, he testified.
"Carla is an absolute babe and I was just chatting her up," he said. (CNN) "Carla is an absolute babe, I was trying to chat her up," Gongaware explained. "I wasn't trying to hit on her. I don't have cold sweats, I don't have nightmares, I sleep great!" Gongaware said. Panish asked him if he was lying in the email, white lie? Gongaware: Let's just say I was joking. Panish: You ask people to pray for you joking? G: I did there (ABC7) Gongaware said he was joking in the message. "I don't have cold sweats," he said. "I don't have nightmares. I sleep great." (AP)
Response from Phillips on Jun 20: Bugzee, I know because I just got Kenny's message on my voicemail.What did he do when he got there and what happened between him and KO? I have a meeting with MJ tomorrow morning. (ABC7)
From Hougdahl (Bugzee)to Phillips, cc'd Gongaware: MJ came out and watched all the pyro demonstration and endorsed the all the effects then went into his room and asked Kenny "you aren't going to kill the artist, are you?" We assumed this was reference to pyro, but Kenny said he was shaking and couldn't hold his knife and fork. Kenny had to cut his food for him before he could eat, and then had to use his fingers. I don't know how much embellishment there is to this, but (Kenny) said repeatedly that MJ was in no shape to go on stage. He kept going on and on how no one was taking responsibility for "getting him ready". We might be getting beyond ... damage control, here. (ABC7)
"I didn't worry about, it sounded like he was sick and they were going to talk about it next morning," Gongaware explained. (ABC7)
Phillips replied: Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow, however, I am not sure what the problem is. Chemical or physiological? (ABC7)
Gongaware said he was at a family wedding and wasn't really paying attention to this. This was 1st time he heard something was wrong with MJ (ABC7)
Gongaware responds: Take the doctor with you. Why wasn't he there last night? (ABC7)
"Yes, if he (MJ) was sick, why wasn't he (the doctor) there?" Gongaware said he meant in the email. (ABC7)
Phillips responded and added Tim Leiweke in the chain: He is not a psychiatrist so I'm not sure how effective he can be at this point. Obviously, getting him there is not the issue. It is much deeper. "I think Randy is stating his opinion," Gongaware said. (ABC7)
Panish asked if Gongaware inquired what Phillips meant by "the issue... It's much deeper." He said no. Gongaware: Well, there was going to be a meeting that day to discuss it Panish: We're you concern? Gongaware: Not necessarily. Panish: Nobody told you anything where Dr. Murray was? Gongaware: No P: And never sought to find out? G: No (ABC7)
Response from Hougdahl to Phillips, about needing trainer/therapist: I've watched him deteriorate in front of my eyes over the last 8 weeks. He was able to do multiple 360 spins back in April. He'd fall on his a** if he tried it now. (ABC7)
"There was a meeting on June 20th. I wasn't there, I was back East," Gongaware recalled. (ABC7)
Email from Phillips: Unfortunately, we are running out of time. That's my biggest fear. "He was afraid of that, I wasn't," Gongaware said. (ABC7) "That is my biggest fear," Phillips wrote to Gongaware and the CEO of AEG Live's parent company, Anschutz Entertainment Group, on June 20, 2009, five days before Jackson's death. Gongaware said he didn't agree with Phillips' assessment. "He may have said that, but I didn't agree with that," Gongaware testified.(AP)
Katherine Jackson's attorney questioned Gongaware about whether the company put too much emphasis on the showbiz maxim, "The show must go on." Gongaware denied that was the case. He told the jury that he was concerned about Jackson's health, but that he thought "This Is It" tour director Kenny Ortega may have been overstating concerns about the singer's wellbeing. (AP) Gongaware agreed that in this business, the show must go on. (ABC7)
Gongaware said AEG has a policy that they check people out either by knowing them, by being known in the industry or recommend by the artist. (ABC7)
Gongaware testified he didn't know when Dr. Murray's contract was to begin. "That contract was for London and the shows for London, I believe," Gongaware said. (ABC7)
Email on 6/20/09 from Phillips to LeiwekeComm and Kazoodi: This guy is really starting to concern me. Read his email and my response. Dr. Murray and I are meeting with MJ at 4pm today at The Forum. (ABC7) Phillips also expressed concerns about Ortega, writing to Gongaware's private email address, "This guy is really starting to concern me." Gongaware testified Wednesday that he wasn't sure who Phillips was referring to, and his boss may have been expressing concerns about Jackson or Murray. (AP)
Phillips sent this email to Leiweke and Gongaware's private email accounts. "Kazzodi" is a private email address that belongs to Gongaware. "The artist's health is paramount. Without the artist, there's no show. The artist if the most important thing," Gongaware testified. (ABC7)
Email on 6/19/09 from Phillips to Leiweke: We have a real problem here. (ABC7)
There was a meeting that was going to happen the next day, Gongaware said, and he waited to see what would come out of it. (ABC7)
Email on 6/19/09 from Leiweke to Phillips: Let's set up a time for your and I to meet with him. I want Kenny in the meeting as well. (ABC7)
Ortega wrote back: I will do whatever I can to be of help with this situation. My concern is now that we've brought the Doctor into the fold played the tough love, now or .He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling an obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get him back in the light it's going to take a strong Therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing. I was told by our choreographer during the artists costume fitting w/ his designer tonight they noticed he's lost more weight.: As far as I can tell, there's no 1 taking responsibility (caring) for him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Email cont'd: Tonight I was feeding him wrapping him in blankets to warm his chill, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor. There were four security guards outside his door, but no one offering him a cup of hot tea. Finally, it's important 4 everyone 2 know I believe he really wants this. It would shatter him break his heart if we pulled plug. He's terribly frightened it's all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if i was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence. It broke my heart. He was like a lost boy. There still may be a chance he can rise to the occasion if we get him the help he needs. (ABC7)
Phillips responded: Kenny, I will call you when I figure this out,we have a person like that, Brigitte, who's in London advancing his stay. We will bring her back asap and Frank, too, however, I'm stymied on who to bring in as a therapist and how they can get through to him in such a short time. (ABC7)
Gongaware said Brigitte is a lawyer who was in charge of accommodations for MJ in London. (ABC7)
"This all happened prior to the meeting, and I was waiting to understand what the situation was," Gongaware explained. (ABC7)
"I think they are special," Gongaware said about artists. Gongaware: He was obviously concerned Panish: Seriously concerned, right sir? Gongaware: Seemed to be (ABC7)
Email response from Philips to Kenny urging him, and everyone else, not to become amateur psychiatrists or physicians on 6/20/09. Email: "You cannot imagine the harm and ramifications of stopping this show now" (ABC7)
Panish: Can you name a single person at AEG who checked Dr. Murray out? Gongaware: I don't know if anyone did. I didn't know anything about him," Gongaware said about Dr. Murray. "Some people work for reasons other than money," Gongaware opined, but said he didn't know whether Dr. Murray was in that category. "I believe every doctor is unbiased and ethical," Gongaware said. "I think it's a natural assumption on my part." Gongaware: I never checked any doctor that I used. I just go by recommendation, never checked anyone's financial situation. (ABC7)
Gongaware said everyone thought MJ had all the money in the world, and it was not unusual for him to see people asking for a lot of money. Gongaware said he never heard before today anything about Dr. Murray's financial conditions. (ABC7)
Panish: He knew MJ's health was declining based on what the doctor told I'm, right? Gongaware: Based on what his doctor told him, yes (ABC7)
"I did talk to him and he said the meeting went well," Gongaware recalled. (ABC7)
"This guy is starting to concern me," Phillips wrote in an email to Leiweke, Gongaware and Frank DiLeo. "It is not clear to me who 'this guy' is," Gongaware said. "I don't know what Randy meant here," Gongaware explained. "I can easily take 'this guy' is MJ here." (ABC7)
Gongaware said he was in a family wedding, hadn't seen the family for a long time and was not paying attention to work. Gongaware said he produced every email he had related to this case. (ABC7)
Email on 6/22/09 from Hougdahl (Production Manager, known as Bugzee) to Gongaware: Further to the earlier email Let's keep our 2 docu people out of here today, unless they stay in the dressing room area only. Tomorrow is another story... (ABC7)
Panish: Sir, Michael was sick this time, wasn't sir? Gongaware: I don't know, he showed up next day and was great! Panish: But you were not at the rehearsal, sir? Gongaware: I saw reports (ABC7)
Panish then asked Gongaware about his attendance at Jackson’s rehearsals. Gongaware said he didn’t attend many. Gongaware said he watched Jackson perform “Thriller” two days before he died, but that was the only time he spent at that rehearsal. (AP) Panish talking about June 24th rehearsing: "He appeared to me to be fully engaged," Gongaware said. "I recall seeing Thriller because it was the first time they were rehearsing with the costume and I wanted to see it," Gongaware said. (ABC7)